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Sick Plant What insects would do this damage

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@guitarzan Hi mate, did you have a look on the underside of the leaves, I dont know if caterpillers or something would do that kinda damage. slugs can eat a lot but there doesn't look to be any slime about. Did that happen over a few days or are you checking it daily.

Iv been very lucky so far and not had many bugs but iv seen caterpillers stripping the leaves off some berry bushes in the garden in a very short space of time.

But thats where I run out of ideas.lol some of the other lads might know tho 🙂 

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@stootie I check on them every day..  it's been happening on a continuous basis..  this happens every year early in the season.. and then later in the season the plants will somewhat recover..

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@guitarzan , Like Monkeydo posted It could be caterpillars but they often leave small black poo dots next to where they eat. If you don’t see any I believe it could be grasshoppers. 

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@philmebowls  I don't see any black poo.. I have checked under the leaves .. top of the leaves..  stems .. the whole plant pretty through..  I find a few white flies..  an occasional leaf roller..  I also seen 1 stink bug 1 time.. I sprayed neem oil once and that did seem to get rid of most of the white flies..  I have gone out at night with a flash light..  so..idk..?   What ever it is it sure likes cannabis 

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@guitarzan try alternating BT (Bacillus thuringiensis) one day, oils another day.  I use neem, peppermint, tea tree and eucalyptus in water with a touch of dish soap to spray for my oil concoction. I have had great luck with this alternating method.  Good luck with the bugger

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@shonuff I sprayed bt..   a few days later Neem oil...   The neem oil  seems to knock the white flies down  but it don't kill em all..    I don't think white flies are doing that kind of damage.??   Maybe I'm wrong.?    I just went out and looked at my plants..  very closely..   tops leaves stems....on the ground... Under every leaf..   only thing I can find is White flies..  but again I don't think they chew giant holes in the leaves...   I think it's cattapillers or grasshopper..   but I can't find any...not 1..!       Idk what to do.?

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@guitarzan Maybe the caterpillars have left now mate because of the neem n shit. You should put some sticky traps around the plants, especially over the top of the soil to try and catch any of the flies. You should also treat 2 more times with the neem. 3 day after the first treatment treat again. Then treat with the neem 3 days after that. That will help kill have larvae from the eggs that hatch in that time. 

How is the plant looking now? 

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@macky the plants are getting worse..!   What ever it is is still attacking..   I sprayed bt again last night just before dark..  I'll wait a day or two and spray Neem again..  but it's heartbreaking..!   I spent half the winter growing a couple mom's and making clones for the outdoor garden..   and it all went great until I put em outside..!   

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@guitarzan bugs are a bastard man and one of the hazards of growing out doors. If its getting worse, the culprot is still on the plant somewhere, or atleast living close by, the neem will help keep them away but sticky traps around the plant will catch them next time the come near the plant. You got any new pics? 

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@macky the picks are all the same...  Shredded leaves...  I think now it's probably Japanese beetles as suggested by another guy in this forum..  I looked em up and it says the eat the leaves in between the veins..  leaving them looking like a skeleton..  and that's exactly what I'm seeing..  at first I thought cattapillers..  but now I'm leaning towards Japanese beetles..  I'm gonna spray azamax tonight just before dark..  and I have a week off work so I will be on a squishing rampage against the white flies and anything else I see..!   

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@macky I'll take some more pictures over the weekend.. I just went out and did some weeding and I throughly inspected every plant ..top to bottom..  I found a few of the colorful little leaf Hopper bugs..   and I found some of what I believe is white flies?   I think.?   IDK these are a new one just this year..  the shredded leaves happens every year... The white flies ..or what I think are white flies hide under the leaves..  I'll tickle the underside with one hand and they run to the top so I can squash em with my other hand.. but they don't really fly..?   Once they realize I'm after them they will jump down to a lower branch or the ground.?   Does that sound like white flies.??   I'll take a picture of one 

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@macky I just inspect all my plants top to bottom and put some sticky traps out..I also stripped off a lot of the chewed up leaves.. not every leaf with holes in it..  but all the leaves that were shredded to a skeleton.  I read that Japanese beetles will eat between the veins and skellatizee the leaves.. seen some pictures that look exactly like what I'm getting.. but I have not seen a single Japanese beetle on any of the plants 

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@philmebowls that could very well be true..  although I don't see grass hoppers very often in the yard..this same damage happens every year and will kill a few plants.. but most recover later in the season..  obviously it would be better if I could prevent it all alone.. but I must first know what I'm dealing with... I think I'm going to get some bt spray and try that..  any thoughts on By..?

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@guitarzan , Place some sticky traps all around your plant and the next morning you’ll see who or what the Leaf eater is.

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@philmebowls that's a good idea..  I'll get some and see what I catch..  I think it's some kind of cattapillers.. IDK if a cattapillers would crawl on to the sticky cards.??   But will see...thanks

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@philmebowls I picked up some sticky traps last night in my way home...   I'll put them all out this afternoon and see what I catch...  Idk.?   Do cattapillers stay on the plants 24 removed link     Or do they go down in the soil during the day and climb up to feed at night.?    You would think with the amount of damage I would see at least 1 bug..!  But all I can find is White flies 

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@guitarzan Yes Caterpillar‘s do stay on plants but move around during dusk & dawn  and hide as the sun comes out. So all that damage was done overnight ? And you didn’t see anything on the traps and nothing under the leaf’s. Like shonuff posted it’s most likely a Japanese beetle.

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@philmebowls after looking up Japanese beetles I'm starting to think that's what is causing it..   I'll set the traps this afternoon and I'm gonna get some sevin.japaneae beetle spray.. today 

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@guitarzan the main problem with Japanese beetles is that they are very mobile.  You can kill and kill a d more could just come along to replace them.  I would seriously think about a physical barrier like mosquito net. 

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@shonuff thing is I haven't acctually seen a single one japanese beetle on the plants at all..!   I read they feed during the daylight hours and I have been out there looking day and night to figure it out and all I ever see is leaf Hopper...  And what I believe is white flies..  although they seem to run sideways from top to bottom of the leaves rather then fly away..   they run..or jump to a lower branch or jump to the ground..!   IDK. This year is the first time Ive seen em 

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@philmebowls

IMG 20220701 111810358
IMG 20220701 111820143

 This is what I'm finding mostly..  but I don't think this praticular bug could cause the giant holes..  and the skeleton like leaves..  I read Japanese beetles will eat between the veins and skellatize the leaves... But I have not seen a single Japanese beetle on the plants or on the sticky traps..?    So idk..?   I know there must be more then one specific pest attacking my garden..  

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@philmebowls  I just put some sticky traps out..  so tomorrow we shall see what happens.

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@guitarzan hopefully you can catch one and post a pic of it.  Maybe we can identify this scourge.  🤔 

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@guitarzan, And when you catch the Crawley Scoundrels give them a good bashing form all of us that are following your post . May your hunt be successful .lol

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@philmebowls

IMG 20220701 111820143
IMG 20220701 111810358
IMG 20220701 110557920

 Are these aphids.??  White flies.??  IDK.??  But this is what I find mostly on my plants..   they hide on the underside of the leaves..  I have killed most of them but I'm still finding a few on each plant.. what do I do..?  

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@guitarzan Those look more like leaf hoppers or another member of the Cicadellidae family.   The damage from those will generally look more like this as they are plant suckers.   

Screenshot 20220701 121106 Chrome
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@shonuff I have those exact same marks on some of the leaves..  but I also have the large holes and skellatizee leaves as in my first picture..  so I must have more then one pest attacking my plants

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@shonuff

IMG 20220701 110143869

 Not sure what it is exactly... But this is what I'm finding hiding on the underside of the leaves.. off yellow to white in color...  They can run sideways from top to bottom of the leaves..  I've killed most of them.  But there are always some survivors the next day..

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@guitarzan You could also Try some predatory insects . A lot of garden shops and hydroponic shops will sell praying mantises or ladybugs.

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@philmebowls no way I'm buying bugs to release in my yard.. LoL..  if I have to much trouble growing outside I'll just go back to my home made hydroponic system in the basement...  At least I won't have swarms of locust plague in the basement..  that's for sure 

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@shonuff  also today I found a bunch of small red bugs on my tomato plants that are not to far away from my cannabis garden..  when I squish them it leaves a red juice on the finger tips..   I have no idea what I'm dealing with here,.   I'm no bug expert but I know whatever it is ...it's shredded all the leaves on the cannabis.. but my veggie garden is pretty much uneffectd.. other then the little red bugs I just found this morning

IMG 20220701 113107871 HDR
IMG 20220701 112835581 HDR
IMG 20220701 112826650 HDR

 

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@guitarzan Those red ones im pretty sure are aphids.  As long as you aren't finding them on the cannabis plant you will be fine.  Alot of times aphids are species specific, so the ones that attack your tomatoes plant may not even want anything to do with cannabis.  

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@shonuff maybe.  But from what I have read and seen all the aphids are fat oval shape..  and these are kinda skinny spindly little buggers..  could be baby aphids.?  I'm not sure yet..   either way tomo morning I'll go on a pinching rampage again and then hit everything with neem oil spray again..  this really sux cuz all my plants are clones from mother's I raised all winter under lights in the basement.. I have a lot of time and effort into them to see it all go to shite..

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@guitarzan You could always try a natural remedy, There are a few different things like cinnamon and clove etc that will make it unbearable for most bugs yet will not hurt your plants. Neem is OK to use in veg but you may find issues cropping up come flower and the last thing you want to be spraying on them at that point is neem oil. 

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@bubblehok I have this same problem every year here..  early spring I put the plants out and they do great for about a month..  and then they come under attack by idk what.?  But what ever it is it shreds the leaves something fierce..!   And then once the summer HEAT comes it stops.. and the plants recover and go on to produce pretty good..  last year I didn't spray anything..  actually this is the first year that I fought back...  But this was the first time I had these white flies/ leaf Hopper or what ever it was on top of whatever eats the leaves to pieces.. usually I just let nature take it's course..  the bugs eat their fill and I get what's left..but this year has been exceptionally brutal..  so I decided to fight back.. anyway I'm hoping I'm on the road to recovery now..

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@shonuff acctually after a second closer inspection...I think you are correct.... They do look like aphids...  This is my first ever garden..  so I'm learning as I go... Although I do inspect my plant pretty much daily..  and it was just this morning I spotted them.  And they are only on one tomatoes plants out of 6 that I have..    tomorrow I'll go to war again.

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@shonuff  well I'm pretty sure I am winning the war..!   I sprayed all my plants with Azamax last night just before dark..   sprayed the cannabis garden and the veggie garden..   I just got home...watered both gardens and I must say that stuff works pretty dam well..!   I did not see one single white flies or lead Hopper or what ever it was I took pictures of..  not 1...!    And all the little pink aphids that were on my tomato plants are all dead..!  Well I did find a few survivors amongst all the dead ones... But they did not look happy..  they look like they are about to die as well... And I found a ton of little white molt shells..?    That I didn't notice before..  I mean I have seen the molts before. But today there was a ton of them..!   Idk why.?   Maybe the azamax causes them to molt.?  Kinda doubt it.  But idk.??   Either way I am definitely winning the war right now..

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@guitarzan , It has a Aphid shape and they some are a pale yellow color . If you spray the plant with Neem  oil or insecticidal soap, just make sure to do it after the sun goes down . 

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Caterpillars can do that mate, specifically tobacco bud worms do this where I live. They eat the tender young leaves first. Looks like you are outdoors from the looks of the photo. I see grass in the background and outdoors this time of year is when it happens. 

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Japanese beetle will also do this kind of damage.  You are definitely looking for a bigger bug.  

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To be completely honest, I don't think this is caterpillar damage.  The way the leaf is eaten from inside out looks more like a beetle of some sort.  Very similiar to japanese beetle leaf damage.  They can do alot of damage fast, then fly right away.  

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Something else to try, for the Whiteflies at least, is spinosad.  It will definitely take care of them. Monterey Garden insect spray contains it and is pretty widely available depending on Country.  

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You could also set up slug traps using beer, these traps will catch more than slugs. I've caught snails, earwigs, and other night critters with yeast water mix. Get a container of some sort, I used plastic margarine/butter containers buried to ground level near the plant and half fill with beer, yeast mix and check in the morning. The yeast is what attracts them, but unknown to many is that slugs can be attracted from 200 yards so I wouldn't leave these traps out on a permanent basis unless you want your neighbors bugs to ☹️. This could catch or tell you what critters you are dealing with and zero in on a remedy 😎 We think it's slugs or snails. Good Luck

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@hart I don't think slugs would be able to crawl all the way up to the top new tender leaves at the growth tips...  And there is no sign of any slug slime... So pretty sure it's not slugs..I posted some pics of the bugs I am seeing on the plants..  and they do seem to like the very tops..   but I don't think the bugs I'm seeing are capable of stripping the leaves down to a skeleton.?   IDK.?   I have a few days off work and I'll be going out several times a day to squish anything that moves

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Posted by: @guitarzan

Do cattapillers stay on the plants 24/7  Or do they go down in the soil during the day and climb up to feed at night.?

Caterpillars don’t leave the plant until they are finished with them and they don’t burrow into the soil. Their only task is to eat as much as possible and then go dormant in a pupae stage to emerge as butterflies or moths. I’ve seen one other thing that can cause that damage and it’s not an insect. I’ve has some specific fungis infections that sometimes eat holes in the leaf and look like an insect attack. Small spots would form on the leaves and within 24 hours that spot would completely die and leave a hole. The plants I saw it on weren’t cannabis but the damage looked very similar. Bad thing is I don’t remember the outcome, how did I stop it 🤷🏻‍♂️. I think I used a product called “Plant Doctor Organocide” because I don’t keep any other fungicides around anymore. BTW, the organocide was a recommendation from Wolfman on Growcast some years ago. I don’t know if he still uses it or not.

This was just a passing thought and something to consider if all else fails. A few fungus infections can mimic insect damage. If you are convinced it’s insects damage you might consider a physical barrier like a dome cover made of screen or fine mesh. It will block some of the light but it will stop larger insects from munching your cannabis.

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@monkeydo I really don't think it's a virus.. I have this same problem every year.. (I've only been growing 5 yrs now).  Outdoor in the summer and indoor during the winter I run my home made hydroponic system.. it's outdoor every season early on I get this horrible leaf damage.. then the plants will recover and produce..   but obviously would be a lot better if they didn't have to go through this at all..and I'm still not a hundred percent sure what it's from..?  All I ever see is the colorful little leaf Hoppers...  And now new this year is what I believe to be white flies..?   I think..?  They are bright white..  they hang out in the underside of the leaves..  and if I tickle the underside of the leaves bthey run to the top and I'll squash em..

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I think they are white flies.?  But they don't seem to like to fly much..   typically they run sideways from top to bottom and will jump to the ground once they know your after them..!    probably 1/8 inch long bright white to an off yellow color..  either way I doubt they could cause the shredded leaves..  pretty sure the just leave little Pierce marks. But not holes

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Limonene
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Some mosquito netting would definitely be a worthwhile investment.  Pretty easy to make a wire cage for the plants then cover in the netting to keep stuff out.  Good call there @monkeydo

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Hart
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Limonene
Joined: 5 years ago

Ah yes Japanese beetles, never had the pleasure but after seeing some pics of damage done you guys may be onto something. Physical barrier is a good idea.

Got this from Better Homes and Gardens...

DIY Japanese Beetle Insecticide

  • 1 tsp. dishwashing liquid
  • 1 cup vegetable oil
  • 1 cup rubbing alcohol
  • 4 cups water

Mix your ingredients together, put them into a spray bottle. The beetles will continue to appear over several weeks, so you'll need to check for them often before they can do much damage.

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(@woodi2)
Alpha-Pinene
Joined: 4 years ago

5 gallons of gas and a match works pretty well. 💣 🤬 lol 

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Geraniol
Posts: 38

@woodi2  not like I haven't thought of that... Ya can fight mother nature but you will never win

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Frosty Fire Ant
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Eucalipto
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I’ve used garlic and chili extract spray it works pretty well 

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Geraniol
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