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Questions Fade or deficiency?

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Greenplanet
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Mid-week 7 of 12/12 with pack saying 56days for flower. Is this fade or something else. I won’t be able to get an accurate runoff measure for a couple of days.

 

Grow Medium
Coco Coir
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480W QB
Temperature C/F : (Light on/off)
23c/19c
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50
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Green Planet 3part + CMX cal mag+ iron

pH Level
6.1
EC / PPM / TDS of Feed

850-900PPM

Feed Frequency
2 X Daily
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SuperC
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@greenplanet Not sure if these are upper or lower leaves. Dark green leaves with the tips turned down? They look like they have been getting too much Nitrogen. Week 7 of flower? Late flower is the most common time for Nitrogen Toxicity. This late in flower, you are left with no room to make a mistake. This is when you should see fade because of reduced Nitrogen.

It could also be a copper deficiency, however GP3 Micro 5-0-1 is high in Nitrogen. So, no GP3 Micro this late in flower. Honestly, if this were mine, I would be only using the GP3 Bloom 0-5-4 with nothing more than a drop of the GP3 Grow 2-1-6. Your plants look like all they need is GP3 Bloom next water.

The seed package of 56 days tends to always be a minimum estimate in my experience. Check your trichomes with a jewelers loop to know for sure when they are ready for harvest. Once there are some amber heads, then it is time for water only until harvest. Water only before harvest will help clear the nutrients out and give her plenty of time to use up what she has stored to enhance the natural flavonoids without all the heavy Cal mag and micro nutrients in the plant, the buds will burn cleaner and taste awesome.

Week 7 of flower? Yeah, the leaves can go to hell. The buds are your focus now.

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Limonene
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Looks like a calcium/magnesium deficiency fr the picture but I would be giving them a flush and looking at your runoff ec and ph ranges, usually a lockout will look like this in its early stages. Give them a real good flush and then bring your feed back gently at 3/4 strength with a touch more calmag added should sort it out for you. 

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Greenplanet
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@bubblehok, ok I have some TERRA AQUATICA FLASH CLEAN I can use next watering. I’ll get it a good flush and then see how she goes from there. Cheers 👍🏻

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@greenplanet just in case you aren’t familiar with flushing here’s a complete guide.

https://percysgrowroom.com/flushing-a-cannabis-plant/

BTW, I’m in agreement that it looks like a flush is in order. I like to go light on the nitrogen for the last 3 weeks of flower. As the buds are ripening I start reducing all the feed levels and let senescence happen in the finish.

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Greenplanet
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@monkeydo cool, I have flushed before however I’m trying this flash clean product which hopefully means I don’t need as much water. I’ll reduce my feed and increase my run-off for the next few waters after I  flush and see how I go. Thank you to everyone for there help.

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Greenplanet
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@monkeydo I might also leave the Micro out as the CMX has a little nitrogen in it. I feel this is a result of the Humic Fulvic acid I use in the veg phase.

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@greenplanet how many more weeks do you think you have left on those?

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@monkeydo

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The tricomes are still mostly clear so I think two - three weeks. Breeder says 56days so I usually add two weeks for the stretch onto that and I’m nearly in week 8. The pistis have started to change colour so she’s getting closer. I used the flash clean and then fed with a 400PPM feed. This is the current worst leaf after this. I’m considering a further flush with flash clean but with a larger amount of water then just feeding the bloom part of my GP3 at the ratio on their feed chart plus cal mag till the end. What do you think? 

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@greenplanet I like that plan. I been thinking about your grow all day today at work. I just couldn't wait to get home to read up on your flush. What a relief it is to hear that your trichomes are still clear.

You wouldn't happen to have some Epsom Salts (Mag Sulfur) to use in a compost tea instead of the Cal Mag?

It appears your plant could use some Magnesium for sure however the Calcium isn't needed as much as Sulfur is at this stage in flower.

 

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Greenplanet
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@superc yeh I have Epsom salts. I did a quick check of my runoff and it was 1480 PPM. I’m not sure how clean the saucer is that the runoff is in but I’m going to give her another run with flash clean and then drop my feed to 3/4 strength nutrients and Epsom salt. I’ve used Epsom salt in soils grows but this is my first try with Coco. What amount per gallon or litre do you recommend for coco?

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@greenplanet No more than one TBS per liter. If you are doing a gallon I would use two Tablespoons.

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@greenplanet if your runoff is 1480ppm then that is 2.960 EC!!! At this high level of salts in the runoff you are definitely seeing some lockout. It’s easier to understand if you look at this chart showing how each nutrient effects the others. Almost every nutrient is influenced by the others, some inhibit others and some enable others.

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If I were you I’d be working on lowering that runoff EC significantly and not adding anything new to the equation at this point. With a runoff as high as yours is there’s sure to be lockout in play. With 3 weeks left you should be looking at tapering down your nutrients, especially nitrogen, to avoid loose larfy and harsh buds. Focus on the finish at this phase and not so much a repair to growing. By the time you get there it will be time to chop her. Just my opinion of course but that’s where I’d be putting my efforts.

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@monkeydo, couldn't have said it better. Just reset and bring it in low. Then just let them coast to the finish. There No repairs that you can do besides reset and their not in the mood to jump through any hoops to recover. Damaged leaves won't recover they only get worst. It'll be fine after a reset and lower EC as stated. Good luck Bro.

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Greenplanet
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@woodi2 thanks, other than the leaves she is looking pretty nice so I’m hoping she lands ok.

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Greenplanet
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@monkeydo hey, I’ve given her another flush this morning with flash clean and have a batch of 3/4 strength nutes (following the green planet chart) for my next water that have a PPM 540. I was going to stick at this ratio for the rest of the run and watch the runoff once I move her so I can check the runoff more easily on the weekend. Does this approach seem ok? Would you drop the Micro from my feed completely?

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@greenplanet my grows are also in coco and by this time I'm beginning to taper down all the feed levels because the plant should be finishing off soon. If this were me I'd be at no more than 50% of manufactures recommended rate (probably less) at this point and probably at 25% of recommendation next week and then finish the last week on water only or water with light cal/mag. Upping the feed rate at this point won't increase your yield, I will confess that I tried it early on just like many growers do. We understand the temptation to pile on the feed but cannabis plants start wanting less nutrients at the very end. If you are continuing feed drop the grow out completely and only use bloom and micro at a lower rate than recommended. Experienced growers have learned that often less returns more when it comes to nutrients.

As she continues to ripen the leaves will begin to look different. As she finishes up she sucks all the goodness from the fan leaves so expect this to happen, it's normal. Just like all of us after a full life, the plant might look old and tattered too but the buds will be nice.

That "Mulder's Chart" taught me tons like why raising PK locked out calcium and other neat stuff. Got it from Green Beard originally and have shared it with many. If you can master that give and take that it shows you will have an excellent understanding of nutrient balance and how they all interact.

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Greenplanet
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@monkeydo Cool, I’ll water down the batch I made back to 50% and taper down as you note. Thank you for the follow up, everyone has been very helpful.

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@monkeydo

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 Here’s a pic of how the buds are looking so far by the way.

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@greenplanet Leaves look a little heat stressed. Otherwise they're looking mouthwatering delicious.

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@superc yeh the top leaves are pretty taco but the buds look fine.

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@greenplanet looks great, all you need to do is bring them to the finish line and enjoy.

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@monkeydo thanks, the runoff PPM was down to 670 yesterday so the two flushes with flora clean seem to have done the job.

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@monkeydo the final week you mention above (which I assume is your flush) when you use plain water or water and a little cal mag do you ph the water at all? I see some people ph their flush water and some don’t.

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@greenplanet because I’m not an “active” flush person, I just switch to plain water in the last week, the flush can take longer so depending on the strain it’s water only for the last 1-2 weeks. I like to flush longer running strains a little longer. This is where it gets interesting tho… I read somewhere a long time ago that flushing with high EC well water would work best. Because I have an agricultural well on property I’ve been using that. The EC is massively high, 860 last time I checked, but that’s what the article wanted, hard water with lots of calcium in the water. The ph comes in north of 8.5 too but I don’t ph it, just feed it as is. The ph causes nutrient lockout but that’s perfect because we want to use up everything the plant has stored up before we cut her down. Everyone does this a little differently and there’s no wrong way for you to grow YOUR weed. Some growers don’t believe in the flush so this is all up to you mate. Grow your weed the way you like.

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Greenplanet
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@monkeydo ok I have 10 days put aside so I think I’ll flush with plain water and check the EC is below 200 max for a few days before I chop her. I have flash clean (a flushing agent) if I need to speed things up towards the end. Thanks for the reply. 🙏🏻

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@greenplanet I’ve not used flash clean but I used to use Sledgehammer from Fox Farms, very similar stuff. I stopped using it years ago in favor of a more gradual flushing but that’s just me and by not using it I get to eliminate that labor too. There’s still the lions share of the very first liter I bought just sitting on the shelf. As your experience increases you will find YOUR way to finish them. 🤞you got this bro.

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@monkeydo 🙏🏻

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@monkeydo interesting chart by the way.

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I fed without Micro or Grow in last feed but with full bloom boosters as per the green planet feed chart.

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@greenplanet ok so those charts from green planet are way too heavy a feed schedule, the bloom input they want will cause lockout nearly every single time, lower that dose to 3/4 of their recommended dose on the chart, if I get over that 3/4 sure as the sun will rise tommrow I'm going to get a lockout. 

Overfeeding the PK values can cause lockout of calcium and other nutrients as well so sometimes it can be a bit of a perfect storm created, then it shows as a pk deficiency because everything locks out and the plant throws a hissy fit. As @monkey mentioned sometimes less is more, especially with cannabis nutrient input. 

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@bubblehok would you repeat a flush with a few litres of flash clean?

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@greenplanet I do my flush with just water and calmag  I will put 60lt through a 5gal bag for a full flush, then let it sit for half a day and feed the 3/4 strength( 3/4 of your current input ratio) and slowly build back up if I think it will take the extra over a week or so. Usually I just take it back to the 3/4 and leave it there so I know it's in a safe range.

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@bubblehok ok the floraclean reduces the amount of water required. Hopefully I can check the runoff EC tomorrow and see what’s what. I’ll follow your advice on the 3/4 nutes. Thank you for the help.

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@greenplanet How's it going? Do you have any new pictures for an update?

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@superc She’s still going 🙏🏻 I got the runoff down with a combination of flash clean and reduced feeding. The leaves did not improve though they didn’t get much worse. I’m coming into week nine tomorrow so I’m considering beginning my flush soon and also lowering my feed down to 1/4 bloom nutes though I’m not sure. Some of the lower buds still have some green pistils and the tricomes look mainly clear. I’ve included some pics so I can get everyone’s opinion. I should add I’m going for max THC on this one rather than any couchlock. If you need better photos let me know my wifi camera is playing up so these were a bit rushed. I could also take photos from different parts of the plant if that helps.

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@greenplanet Looking good. Nice close ups of the trichomes. I'm jealous (Looks like a competition prize winner). The trichome picture in the middle has some amber heads (looking like it's time for water only). Many times the top of the plant will get amber trichomes before the rest of the plant. Harvesting the top of the plant before the rest has been done before. The leaves store nutrients for the plant to use later and should fade without any recovery. It's normal for the lower leaves to fade faster when you start giving her water only. What strain is this plant?

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@superc, I was considering a staggered chop but I’d need a new carbon filter for my other tent and I’m not sure I’ll get a chance to go buy one. Kids and work are drowning out my time at the moment. I might give her a few more days at 25% nutes and then switch to water only and flush. Thank you for the feedback and follow up. Cheers 🙏🏻

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@superc she’s babycakes by solfire. Been very easy to grow other than being resistant to lst with easily snapping branches. The flowers look extremely frosty especially at the top.

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Love the pink trichomes. Ripeness is a personal preference imo so chop her when you are ready for her. Just mentioning that there is a plant of the month competition going on. Just for entering the comp you get entered into a drawing for 3 Watermelon Zittles seeds if you just enter your plant before chopping it.

https://percysgrowroom.com/forum/plant-of-the-month/may-2022-plant-of-the-month-entry-thread/

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@monkeydo, there’s some pink and some purple tricomes in there. I haven’t seen these before but they look very cute nestled in there. 🙂 Cheers.

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