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jafa77
Percy Grower
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Geraniol
Joined: 8 months ago

Hey guys, so I'm doing my first ever grow and have run into one or possibly two issues that I'm hoping some folks with more experience and knowledge than me could possibly help with?

Symptoms:
Brown spots and light green discoloration on 1 lower leaf at the front (pictured) and one lower leaf at the back which isn't as bad. First noticed light green color about a week and a half ago. Those light green areas are now yellow in the first picture.
Stems started turning purple around a week ago. Purple at the base of the leaves has happened in the last few days. See second picture.

Details:
Strain: Royal Creamatic auto
Age: End of week 6
Grow medium: Canna Terra Professional Plus Soil
Nutrients: Fox Farm Grow Big, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom
Feeding schedule: This weeks feeds have been 2 teaspoon Big Bloom, 1 teaspoon Grow Big, 1 teaspoon Tiger Bloom per 3L, every third day
pH: 6.8 going in, 6.1 removed link runoff
Light: LED
Light schedule: 16 hrs on 8 hrs off
Tent temperature: 20°C - 23°C this past week
Tent humidity: 33% - 37% this past week

Obviously I've been reading up on this but have more questions than answers as so many issues seem to have very similar symptoms.

I'm thinking it might be a phosphorus deficiency (affects lower leaves and can turn stems red) or maybe a magnesium deficiency (affects lower leaves causing them to turn yellow between veins), with the stems turning red due to the fairly chilly grow room environment or even just genetics? Or could the issues be down to something else entirely?

Hopefully someone here could offer some insight?

 

IMG 20200516 204145
IMG 20200516 213135
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Macky
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(@macky)
Beta-Pinene
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Round of applause for you mate! First grow, and you have smashed it!!! Plant looks awesome. Just a touch over fed i think 

I am not a soil grower, so its best to leave it to one of those Pro's, but i would be sure she is just a little over fed. Nothing Major mate easily fixable so dont panic. You've done an awesome job!

Welcome to Percys 

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jafa77
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Geraniol
Joined: 8 months ago

Thanks for the kind welcome Macky, though I'll accept the compliment and stop panicking when it's all finished and I'm having my first smoke. Let's not get ahead of ourselves 😀

I didn't consider overfeeding as I've deliberately been feeding less than what's on the Fox Farm charts. Does nutrient burn start at the bottom then work it's way up? If that's what's caused the leaf issue what's with the red stems and leaf veins? Genetics maybe?

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Macky
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(@macky)
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I would say it look more like salt build up. 

The plant over all looks a good dark green. And the leaves that are looking rough are right at the bottom. They wont be getting the same amount of light as the rest of the plant, so wont stay healthy all the way through the grow. 

I think, you're fine really mate. Even if you just carried on what you're doing I think the plants will do just fine. I think reducing the feed a little further might help. But plants like consistency, changing things can cause problems on its own. 

Are you giving the plants any calcium? Or do you have a high background EC? I didn't see you mention anything like that with the nutrients. Maybe a little calcium will help get things flowing properly again. 

The plant is a good dark shade of green, so well fed. I dont think its NP or K def

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jafa77
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Geraniol
Joined: 8 months ago

Thanks for the reply. I've not been checking EC as I read you can get away without doing it if you're growing in soil. Don't know if that's correct or not? Haven't been giving it any calcium but could order some if you think it'd help. The Fox Farm feeding chart mentions flushing every couple of weeks to remove salt build-up which I haven't done yet. Maybe next feeding day I'll just do a pH'd plain water flush instead?

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Macky
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(@macky)
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I wouldn't think a flush 😉 As I said, plants like consistency, a flush completely changes the levels in the soil and the plant has to adjust again, which causes it stress. 

Just drop the feed a little. Or just water one feed with just water, then the next one, give it nutrients. And I would say have some cal mag would do the plant some good. 

Alternate the feeds, one water, then one food, and so on. 

With EC, you do have to check in soil if you're growing with salts based nutrients. You dont have to check EC if youre growing organically Smile

The nutrients youre using are not organic, and are salt based. So checking the EC is a good idea. 

Do you have anything for checking EC?

 

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jafa77
Percy Grower
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Geraniol
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I don't have an EC meter yet but can make Jeff Bezos even richer and get one plus some cal mag by middle of next week. I fed my plant this morning so will feed just water on Tuesday then check EC and take it from there. In the meantime I've got some reading to do. EC, TDS, S/m, PPM, so many abbreviations lol.

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monkeydo
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@jafa77 welcome to Percy’s first of all. Macky has you on the right road, we don’t call him the legend for nothing. Don’t stress over all that different units of measure. Believe it or not, it will become a second language before long and it happens almost naturally when you hang around here. We’ll explain whatever you need help with. BTW your plants are impressive for a first timer. Wish mine were that good lol. Good work there! There’s a ton of easy to follow guides on the front end here. Just about anything Info you’re going to need is there and of course you can always ask any questions you have. Make yourself at home and have a look around and I’m glad you found us.

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TempleGrower
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(@templegrower)
Myrcene
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Hey man, welcome to the club!

That looks like Mg deficiency to me. Mottled interveinal chlorosis with those brown deadspots - classic. And yes, I realize that is what 99% of growers say every problem is, but we are not 99% of growers.. we are the 1% 🤣. And that really does look like a lack of Mg.

Seriously though, magnesium salts are extremely soluble and wash out of your medium very quickly, relative to other more bound-to-the-soil nutrients. And you're just at the end of week 6, which makes sense as this is normally about the time one might see an Mg def due to leaching/usage by the plant. And by the looks of it, your plant has been using the shit out of it, lol. So green! Mg is the central atom in the chlorophyll molecule so, it's extremely important (and also the reason the plant turns yellow if Mg-deficient). Excess N, K, and Ca in the soil can also impair the uptake of Mg, as well as a root environment that is too acidic, wet, or cold.

chlorophyll

Most basic bottled nute regimens don't include Mg as an ingredient, at least in in my experience (unless you buy CalMag, Epsom Salts, etc. specifically for it).

I am actually dealing with a fairly substantial Mg deficiency in one of my tents right now as well. I have been dosing my irrigation water every time I water these Glueberry OGs (every 2 days) with 2 tsp/gallon of Epsom Salts (MgSO4) for about a week now, and it's finally starting to green back up again. Pretty cool to watch, but you need to be patient. Foliar feeding is an option as well, but I am in flower so I won't be spraying anything, and I don't like foliar feeding in general. I run supersoil, which I initially spike with Epsom Salts as well as Dolomitic Lime (another slower release and less robust source of Mg) but occasionally run into issues like this as the Mg is used/washed away. And they're in very small pots this go compared to normal too so less food overall... I digress though.. 🤐 

My leaf looks similar to yours, except a lot further along. In the second pic on the right hand side where those orange arrows are, you can see where the deficiency is starting to be corrected, with the re-greening starting at the leaf veins and working its way outward. Pretty neat!

Day 77 (Flower Day 40)   Mg deficiency in GB3
Day 77 (Flower Day 40)   GBs

My advice would be do do what I am doing - 2 tsp of Epsom Salts/gallon of water every irrigation (or an equivalent dose of CalMag) until morale improves! Just make sure if you use Epsom Salts it is pure MgSO4 and hasn't been spiked with scented shit or whatever. They are used as bath salts after all...

And yes, basic water chemistry is a grower's best friend.. good to get acquainted. 😉 

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monkeydo
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(@monkeydo)
Valencene
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Damn TG, I just got a serious education on cal mag in soil bro. I love this. I’m bookmarking your post! @jafa77 you asked for an expert..... 

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Fish
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 Fish
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Myrcene
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Welcome jafa you got some of the top boys helping u already 😁just need twisted and u nearly got the whole set lol. Man U doing a fantastic job with the plant well done, that’s u hooked now😉I have done the same strain from the same company last year outside, and think u going to like it😁good luck man🎣

 

 

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twisted1
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(@twisted1)
Limonene
Joined: 1 year ago

Looking good Jafa. I like to use the Fox Farms Nutes they do a good job for me  with the addition of Cal Mag, I rarely find the need to use more than 1/2 strength.

Good luck with your grow.

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jafa77
Percy Grower
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Geraniol
Joined: 8 months ago

Thanks for all the replies guys. Looks like I've stumbled into a nice community here.

So I've been given two different suggestions. As Macky said he's not a soil grower and to leave it to one of those pro's I think I'm safe to assume that TempleGrowers Mg deficiency diagnosis is the issue to pursue? In which case it sounds like it would still be prudent for me to get an EC meter, but then to use Epsom salts / CalMag with subsequent feeds until I see an improvement. I'd already ordered the CalMag before I read yesterdays later posts so I'll be going with that once it arrives.

This leads me to two questions:
What is the equivalent amount of CalMag to the 2 tsp of Epsom salts as recommended by TempleGrower?
Should I still use my Fox Farm nutes with every feed or do alternate feeds instead?

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twisted1
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(@twisted1)
Limonene
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it should say on the bottle of CalMag  I use 1 tsp per gallon every time I feed. I alternate between feed and water always make sure the Ph is correct just before feed  or water.  Yeah Temple gave you great advice very knowledgeable  grower.

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monkeydo
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(@monkeydo)
Valencene
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Looks like I've stumbled into a nice community here.”

Yer man, that’s why I started calling it home and stayed mate lol

A good EC pen is really valuable to fine tune a grow and keep things consistent. It’s almost as important a ph meter imo. Around here one of the first questions you will get is what is your EC in and out. That tells us a lot about your plants condition and how to increase your plants results. You can get away without it but most around here will encourage you to get a good one if you can.

Cal/Mag raises the EC of your feed very fast so start your dose at about 1/4 recommended rate and see how the plant responds. Work your rate to 1/2 recommended and you should be good, the plant will let you know if it needs more. As far as the Fox Farm nutrients go, alternating between ph feed and ph water only is generally the recommended method. To follow Temple’s recommended treatment, which I would do, add the calmag to both the feed and the water only irrigation. The soil will hold enough nutes and the alternating water only cycle helps flush waste salts from the pots. Hope this helps. 

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jafa77
Percy Grower
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Geraniol
Joined: 8 months ago

Hey guys, back again with a quick update.

The CalMag and EC reader both arrived. I fed 3 liters water with 3/4 tsp CalMag pH'd to 6.8 without the nutes as advised.

The EC level of my tap water is 0.406 mS/cm and raised to 0.634 when I added the CalMag. I had a hard time getting a reading from the runoff though as the level was jumping all over the place. It was around 1.968 when I measured the first of the runoff, then 1.815 after I drained the last of the water from the pot around 5 minutes later.

Apologies for another noob question: why wasn't I able to get a settled reading with the runoff?

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