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Help with identifying deficiency or excess

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meisme
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Ocimene
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Hello all!

Hope everyone is keeping healthy.

my first post here, my second grow, first in coco. coco purchased over Amazon, says its buffered, looked no different (brick), I'm running with it without buggering it, but did wet it well with pH'd CalMag solution
Mixing my own nutrient concentrates using water soluble fertilizers. So its all a bit hit and miss I guess, but best i can do.

For the environment I have a grow tent, and a Quantum board grow light with 561c. Current temps are bout mid 20's, RH @ 50. Feed is about 1.3 EC, RO water, adding bout 1ml CalMag every 3rd feed. Im at a loss now. Newer growth looks better but is still slow and not quite as green. GSC automatic.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Gratitude for all advise.

 

image

 

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monkeydo
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Valencene
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Before we start diagnosis, welcome to Percy’s brother. Glad you decided to check us out. 
Before we start a little more information would be helpful. What strain is this and is it photo or auto. You mentioned “buffered coco” that came in brick form. That’s a new one on me! I always buffer new coco myself just to be sure it’s done correctly. 
A few questions that will help with diagnosis 

what are you using for nutrients (the brand) and how much of each are you using

How often are you watering

Have you checked the EC of your runoff, it’s a key piece of data and very helpful in diagnosis 

What ph are you feeding in

She looks hungry but sometimes just increasing the feed can make the problem worse so best look at everything first and then decide on an action.

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meisme
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Thank you Monkeydo! I will do as you say!

This is Girl Scout Cookie Automatic that came from a stressed mother parent that hermied my first grow. I have since tried to grow another of these seeds earlier but had to abort just as flowers started cause I had to travel. Not ideal, but It should be fine. 

I am extremely sceptical of the buffered coco claim too. Good to know my doubts are shared

I am mixing my own A+B concentrates using water soluble fertilizer. Here are the target ppm's I have calculated at full strength for an EC of bout 2.5. The micro ppms may be a bit off, but from what I read, it should be ok too. IIRC the NPK lands at 3.2-1-3.5

N (NO3-) 250
K 291
P 82
Mg 93
Ca 260.984
S 102.596
Fe 2.5
Zn 3
B 0.5
Cu 1
Mo 0.1
Na 0
Si 0
Cl 2.714
Mn 1
N (NH4+) 15.27

Today feed pH was bout 5.7 and EC 1.4 , background EC is bout 0.15. I did 4ml each of A+B +2ml of CalMAg 

and I am not really doing a run off. I should probably stop being so lazy, but I cant wrap my head around the science of it. Its not like the plant eats all its food instantly, so how does the runoff EC matter ?

Im watering bout when the top of the coco is dry, 1L at a time, but may have gone a little overboard trying to get the, assumed, Calcium deficiency rectified. So additional consecutive days watering with CalMag and Nutes alternatively. Its a bit hap hazard and I come across so poorly. haha!

It could be she is hungry. I could try upping her feed next time. Maybe give her a 2 days break ?

Thanks again for all you time! Its just super to have nice folk all over you know.

Cheers!

 

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monkeydo
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Valencene
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So much to help you with I'm going to start by sharing a couple of guides. It looks like you are trying to run the coco like its soil. Coco is TOTALLY different stuff and needs to be managed like its hydroponics. The media needs to be watered daily at least. These guides will explain a lot. After you read the guides I would recommend a full flush to remove built up salts and then refeed at a lower rate. Also, each feed should be the same and shouldn't alternate between cal/mag and feed, they need both every time and at a lower rate. Info is in the guides

How to Grow Cannabis in Coco - Percys Grow Room

What is EC, and How Does it Work? - Percys Grow Room, Learn to Grow

 

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meisme
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Ocimene
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Sweet Thanks!

On it now then.
Will keep you posted.

 

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meisme
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Quick questions please.

Ok to flush with pH'd tap water (EC of tap water has been 0.4-0.5 lately)

Short of that Im gonna flush now then, pH 3x water to 5.8 and run through medium. Refeed with nutes for a total EC of 1.2-1.3 ?

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meisme
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Flush with ph tap water pH@5.7 and EC@0.5
First run off measure pH@6 and EC @2

Refeed 1 litre @ pH 5.8 and EC 1.25 || CalMag@2ml // A+B@3ml each.
Runoff @ pH5.9 an EC 1.26, within reading error range i suppose.

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Valencene
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That plan is a good start. That will reset the media and allow the plants to feed properly again. Remember to feed daily and always allow 10-20% runoff each day to keep the salt buildup out of the coco. Collect the runoff and measure the ec. You can use the relation of the input vs the output to determine the best level.

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meisme
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Cool thanks! So in my previous post were my readings after flush. That was bout over 8 hours earlier. I'm afraid the pants gone rather pale. Give her today evening and report. 

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Valencene
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There’s a learning curve on coco. It’s a different media that needs to be treated very differently from soil. Your plants are most probably going pale because they are most experiencing lockout. This is usually caused by salt buildup in the coco making it very hard for the plant to take in nutrients. The daily runoff is needed to remove what the plant doesn’t want and replace what it does need. Letting the excess salts remain in the coco makes it more difficult for the plant to take what it really needs and can eventually kill your results. Coco should be cycled all the way through runoff like this daily or more for best results. Forget soil science, this is hydroponics. I’m not going to be a great help balancing your nutrients because your homemade nutes aren’t familiar to me. I can only help you figure this out for yourself. I use commercial nutes and supplements that I’ve learned about through experience, your stuff is going to be a mystery so we can only provide the grow science, you need to do the nutrient stuff.

One probably important note, you mentioned your flush EC at .500, that’s really high for a background EC. Generally most guides recommended no more than 0.300 EC. My situation is similar, my tap water isn’t the best for growing. Can you collect rainwater or use some RO water for the run or supplement the tap with some distilled water to lower the background. You will definitely see a big difference in growth rate and final yield.

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meisme
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Hey Monkey! 

Yes I now understand better and the runoff bit is now making sense. I read the guides you shared, thank you very much!

I have never grown in soil either, so its all new to me. My only limited experience was with DWC in my first grow, and i got an early crop that I am currently smoking! But after a fair amount of a story thats for a different day. I should share a pic of the monstrosity I helped create.

Yes, background EC has been real high since the pandemic, but I used it for the flush. For the standard watering routine im using RO water.

Understood on the nutes, but if I could be helped with recognising shortcomings i could play around. Im in this for the long haul. I should've been asking for help over a year ago, but spent it fumbling and having a lot of fun! For example this happened to the lemon auto from seedsman :

2
1

 

But i digress. Back to the current.

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meisme
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Right. Pic from now, before feed

1

BG EC@0.15 // pH@6.9
1.5ml CM//3ml each A+B || EC@1.35 pH@5.85

Runoff EC@1.04 pH@6.3

Advise please.

Edit : Just noticed some tip burn ?

Also, so the grow bag is like half full, what would your suggestion be chief. Please don't ask why its half full.

Note to self. Calibrate instrument.

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meisme
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Quick question folks, yesterday post watering I saw the plant droop a bit. Like its been overwatered. Coco too dense etc ?

So the media is still quite wet, do I continue to still water everyday ? It like maybe 10L of coco as of now. Also, auto and transplanting

not a thing I know, but might as well prepare a new batch of clean buffered coco and move her over ?

Pic from now, before feed. She has taken on colour.

 

1

 

Also need to prepare for spider mites. Last grow got done for. Neem oil mixed with soapnut solution foiler spray ?

 

thanks folks.

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monkeydo
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@meisme yes, you should continue to water coco daily and you should allow 10-20% of the feed solution needs to run through the media and remove the excess salts.

I don’t recommend spraying anything on the plant unless there is a problem so be ready with the neem and keep watchful for signs of bugs but I don’t spray insecticide unless it’s needed

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meisme
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Thank you chief! Im almosr certain of mites cause other plants in proximity but outside the tent have em. Chillies in soil so i jst plann to hose it down.

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meisme
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Quick question Monkey! What am i aiming for with the runoff, should be less than input EC or same as ? And how to best adjust ? Same with pH ?

Another question while I can edit. Suggested EC ? Considering that adding calmag for me is increasing EC by 0.3 per ml removed link

Thanks a ton! Reading your shared guide again

 

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