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Ph, deficiency or pests?


greentomato
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Geraniol
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Hi everyone, new to the forum but have been listening to the podcast for a while and seems like a great community so thought I’d post for some advice.

 

I’ll fill the form out first then add a few more details.

 

Grow medium: soil 

Strain: Girl Scout cookies auto from nirvana seeds

PH of your nutrient solution ( Feed): I just use plain de chlorinated tap water

PH of the run off, or Reservoir: haven’t measured this 

EC/ PPM of Nutrient Solution before Feeding: not using any nutrient solutions 

EC/ PPM of the run off, or Reservoir: haven’t measured this

Nutrients Brand, and how many ML per litre of which foods: using dry organic fertilisers from living soil fertilisers.

last feed was

1tbsp bloom, 1tbsp malted barley powder, 2tbsp worm castings

Grow room temps lights on/ lights off ( On/ Off): 24c on and 20c off

Grow room humidity lights on/ lights off (On/ Off): humidity staying around 50% currently 

Res temps if hydro:

Lighting type and wattage (hps, led, cfl): spider farmer sf2000 (200w)

Extraction (Size of Extractor, and where you draw and exhaust air from): AC infinity 4” in-line fan for extraction, intake is an AC infinity bpc cooling fan sat inside one of the lower tent outlets. Inside I have two clip on fans pushing air around the canopy and up towards the lights 

 

Bit more information. 

Currently growing in a 4x2ft tent, only autos because of time and space. Got my spider farmer sf2000 dimmed down to about 60% and would say it’s about 2ft away (have other seedlings in there and this is only a small plant)

This plant is a Girl Scout cookies auto grown in a 4L fabric pot.

It’s in a mix of organic potting compost, cellmax bio potting soil, worm castings, perlite and some dry amendments. Possible I’ve mixed the soil too hot? But tried to keep it really light as I’ve made this mistake in the past.

I’ve ran into the same problem twice now and both have been with the same strain so trying to get to the bottom of the issue and need someone more experienced to cast an eye.

I’ve been getting these little brown spots appear on the leaves and it took over the last Girl Scout until all fan leaves were affected, it’s not so bad on this one. I’m also noticing some leaf tip twisting on newer growth and a bit of drooping going on along with some burnt tips.

Also what looks like leaf damage from insects, like holes and tears. I have seen thrips (1 or 2 in the younger stages and identified leaf damage from them) have sprayed them and watered in nematodes so should have hopefully started to control them.

I think I may have been overwatering early doors so have cut back on that but now the plant is more established it’s drinking fast and I’m watering about every 3 days, the pot is taking about 1L of water.

I don’t PH my water, my understanding was the soil takes care of this so as long as your tap water ain’t fucked you’re ok? Mine comes out the tap about 7 I’ve grown various plants using it and had no issues but maybe this is where I’m going wrong?

The plant has been in flower for about a week or so now.

How do experienced growers diagnose a plant? If there’s so many potentials like in my case to be over watering, pests, ph or too much of a hot soil, how do you narrow it down and diagnose the problem?

I’ve attached a couple pics and this is just after watering so maybe exaggerates the droop?

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Zombie Nation
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Limonene
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Welcome to the forum Greentomato...glad you're enjoying the show Smile /p>

Nice one for filling out the form, most dont...

They look a little overfed tbh...maybe soil is a little hot...they should adjust as they grow though, new growth looks a nice green so theyre not badly affected. I have the same issue on one out of three in my veg tent and they're about 4 weeks ish...

If you have an EC pen, you can get a rough idea of whats happening in the pots by measuring the EC of the run off...at this stage, you want somewhere around 0.6 ish

And yeah, some soils will regulate the PH, depends on their construction though...dolomite lime is the responsible regulator and if not present in your mix, PH will not be adjusted to any great degree...yours is same as mine and I dont PH my water either but am in Canna Terra & Sohum...

Get yourself a x60 loupe and check undersides of leaves for beasties, thats where they like to hide although holes can also be an overfeeding thing

 

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greentomato
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Geraniol
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@zn this is what I thought as well, starting to learn as I go that autos like a proper light soil and seem to be real sensitive to nitrogen. 

which is where I think I’m going wrong in the soil mixes, too much nitrogen and that’s why it’s getting a bit of a claw on but doesn’t seem to be suffering too bad like you said.

I haven’t added any lime but I know the cellmax potting soil has lime/ph regulator but maybe by adding in the potting compost (needed to bulk the mix out) I’ve thrown it off?

the other Girl Scout I grew that got affected by the same spots was grown in pure cellmax so should have buffered it’s self but maybe just didn’t do it that effectively?

EC/PH pen is next bit of kit on my list when I have the cash so cheers for the advice!

As for the bugs I did exactly what you suggested a couple days ago and found a thrip so that’s when I sprayed and watered in the nematodes. Got some of those sachets coming to hang on the other plants and trying to find my neem oil.

For now I’ll chalk this up to over feeding and update the situation as it grows. 

Cheers for the help Zombie, really appreciate it!

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twisted1
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Limonene
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I agree with Zn  she looks a little over fed. I run Pre-amended super soil, My plants tend to be dark in the beginning from the soil being a little hot, but seem to grow out of it.  I dont measure run off EC since the soil has all the nutrients it will need until harvest waiting on the microbeasties to make them available and would not give an accurate depiction of whats available. I do check my soils Ph  to ensure that it is in proper range if it is below 6.0 or above 7 i will run some 6.5 Ph'd water thru it to bring it back in limits and then feed the soil with a compost tea and Molasses. I never water or feed with out Ph-ing to 6.3 -6.8.  The sohum website states (Routinely test water to keep pH levels between 6.0 and 6.5.) I dont use sohum soil but ill take there advice. Keep the beasties happy they will keep the plant happy.

 

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greentomato
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@twisted1

cheers for the sound advice.

when I get that pen I’ll keep more of an eye on the ph going in just so I know what’s going on.

is there a cheaper solution than getting that blue labs pen?

Also with testing soil PH are you testing the medium directly or from the run off? 

 

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twisted1
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@greentomato As for the Ph pen its better to get a quality one  like blue labs, Hanna and a few others.   Myself and others have tried the cheap ones  and rarely do you end up with one thats works correct or lasts.  they do make a Ph test kit  that you use drops of test solution and read the color like you use for pools or aquariums that are cheap. Thats the way i went until i could afford to get a decent  Ph tester.

As far as testing my soils Ph i use a soil probe $9 at Lowes or Home Depot to monitor  my soil  if i notice it moving from its normal reading ill test run off  to determine if it needs attention.

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greentomato
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@twisted1

nice one, I’ll have a look at them. I do have a cheap ph meter knocking about that I was using for food purposes so maybe I’ll find that until a testing kit arrives/I get the funds for a blue lab.

 

plant seems to be looking a bit perkier today so just did a bit of leaf tucking and hopefully with this sound advice I’ll be more successful with this Girl Scout!

7F5ED165 0C6A 4AAF A950 2732107BDB71

 

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twisted1
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@greentomato She is looking very nice.

 

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monkeydo
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She has really perked up, looks happy now. Good job bro.

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greentomato
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@monkeydo

cheers man, still a little concerned about the rust spots on what seems to be mainly older fan leaves but I’ll see if I can keep them in check for the rest of the grow.

Think it’s been a combination of ph being a little off and to much nitrogen in the mix but I only started growing this year so have shit loads to learn and many mistakes to make. 

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monkeydo
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@greentomato get a close up pic of the leaves that concern you and post it please. I can only speculate at this point.

 

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greentomato
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@monkeydo

I take it back and say less of a concern and more I’d just like to know what’s going on so I can learn. Cheers for helping with this monkey!

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greentomato
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Kind of hard to get any real closeups with this phone as it just seems to blur it out when I get to close 

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greentomato
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Bit of an update 

starting to notice some purpling of the stems and overall not looking as happy as the plant could/has looked. 

Any ideas what’s going on?

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greentomato
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greentomato
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Starting to think it’s a phosphorus deficiency or lock out?

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James
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Posted by: @greentomato

Starting to think it’s a phosphorus deficiency or lock out?

I would say the same as red stems are a sign of missing Phosphorus

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greentomato
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Added some citric acid to the last watering to bring the ph down. My tap water is alkaline as fuck and so was the soil.

seems to have got a bit of gloss back or my mind is playing tricks on me, but looks a bit happier.

thought I’d post it up in case any other new growers run into a similar problem and stumble across this thread.

I’ll update again if it definitely solves the problem!

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twisted1
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@greentomato  She is looking good. Glad that you found your solution to the situation. Happy growing and yes please keep us updated we all enjoy watching these plants grow.

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Posted by: @greentomato

Added some citric acid to the last watering to bring the ph down. My tap water is alkaline

I guess its a common thing in EU Coasts - we have alot of chalk in our water.

To me its the same I actually started to use concentrated Winegar to adjust PH.

If it gets too much I go with Baking Soda ( Natron )

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@greentomato how did these go since mate? 

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