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Week 4 of flower and yellow leaves


Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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Hi all! First grow here. Week 4 of flower tomorrow May 21. Strawberry cough from Dutch Passion. Have some serious yellowing going on right after I fed her last night. Had some of the same a week or so ago but seemed to slow after I upped the flora nova. This time it seriously yellowed over night not sure why. Didn’t check the ppm this time and don’t have a PH stick but and going to to get one asap. A bit of nutrient burn on tips so I feel like it’s getting enough nutes. It looks like nitrogen deficiency to me but I’m a noob so idk and that’s why I’m here. Any feedback would be much appreciated! Thank you 

Grow Medium
Soil
Grow Light
Atreum hydra 1000
Temperature C/F : (Light on/off)
70-75F
Humidity
60
Picture of Problem
57DDC1DF-9773-4C0A-923D-61D9A381AC26.jpeg
Nutrients

Flora nova and kool bloom

pH Level
Not sure
EC / PPM / TDS of Feed

PPM ranges from 850-1500

Feed Frequency
Every other watering
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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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@doodaddy do you have more photos you could post, from different angles etc. if it’s primarily on the lower fan leaves it looks like nitrogen deficiency, which is mobile. So your girl will move nitrogen from less important parts of the plant and make it available to the bud sites. 

What ratios or nutz are you using at this stage in your grow?

fyi, I have this e-book (nook app from Barnes and noble) I wanted a quick and convenient garden reference for my phone and tablet, only $12, instant download!

3581B17B BE51 4E75 B0CA 18BF061F1BB8
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Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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@sevans1965 2 tsp flora nova and 1 tsp of kool bloom every other watering in a gallon of water

2282BCC7 5EB4 4E55 A920 FB47936C97BD
E36F6C99 DF40 4CBC 8549 D8CA67414B2D
5280FC47 00A7 4304 9F3F 0D6647B9DD74
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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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And is your kool bloom dry or liquid? I noticed quite a NPK diff between the two. 
you also mentioned you don’t pH test at the moment, you should remedy that asap, cuz you might have the nutz in the soil, but if pH is off, you girl may not be able to uptake..

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Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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@sevans1965 liquid

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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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@doodaddy I’m assuming flora nova “grow”, not flora nova “bloom” ?

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Doodaddy
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@sevans1965 no I’m using flora nova bloom

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Improper_Weed_Viking
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(@improper_weed_viking)
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How often are you watering. With your soil is it your own or store bought?

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Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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@improper_weed_viking thanks for the reply. Usuallly every 2-3 days when the soil looks and feels dry. Tap with a ppm of 228😅 a gallon of water with 10%-15% run off at least. This last time the leaves beginning to droop so definitely thirsty.

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Sevans
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Posted by: @doodaddy

Tap with a ppm of 228😅 a gallon of water with 10%-15% run off at least. This last time the leaves beginning to droop so definitely thirsty.

I’m not a soil grower, but I am studying up on it since I’m about to embark in super soil micro grows as a side project. Maybe others can shed more light on this for both our benefits— 

I read that you want to see run-off with coco, but you don’t with soil. Because its my understanding that you’ll end up flushing out all the nutz already in the soil. 

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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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Those other pics you posted- To me- looks like N deficiency, but cause unknown (pH &/or watering practices). 

Until you see consensus from others, if it were me, I would water until you just start to see run off and stop. In the mean-time other information and guidance might come your way from others.

I hope all my comments haven't created more questions LOL. Good luck Bro.

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Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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@improper_weed_viking sorry I thought you meant water lol. Fox farms ocean Forrest for soil

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Improper_Weed_Viking
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Ocimene
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@doodaddy awesome bit of information to go off mate thanks for your response. 

I grow soil and it's my jam for sure!. With your deficiency I'm leaning with Macky here on this with it being a mag deficiency and maybe a tad to much hydration. I'm currently stepping my watering back from 3 to 2 per week as I'm coming into winter, but I'm assuming you're on the opposite side of the ball to me so I'd keep the 3 day watering for now but reduce it to about 1.5ltrs for now and increase as it's needed. As we are all taught here a plant needing something is easier to deal with than a plant getting too much of something and with soil once you go down the slippery slope of deficiency and imbalance it's a long war on getting the equilibrium back to homeostasis.

With the mag deficiency I'd be whizzing up some baked egg shell and Epsom salts (bake eggshells in the oven at 130°c untill the white stuff inside the eggshell looks cooked, then crush into powder) add twice the amount of Epsom to the eggshells and if you're using around a 50ltr from bag and add a teaspoon sprinkled on the soil surface before watering.

It's good to see more of you guys looking towards soil growing. If you already haven't I'd highly recommend listening to Dr Elaine Ingham's interviews on HOHG until they're memorised as well as Jordan Rivers episode on making your own IMO's (indigenous micro organisms). If going the route of full soil grower with ambitions to be a custodian of the earth you'll have to stop buy store bought soil and start using your own from your yard. Trust me dude if you implement the strategies taught by Dr Elaine and Jordan you'll have a soil 10 fold better than anything you can buy and it'll cost a fraction of any other growing medium (lol waiting on our beloved Coco growers to bomb me). 

Welcome to Percy's mate, we are sure glad you found us 👍

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Doodaddy
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  1. @improper_weed_viking some good info there thank you. I’ll look into those episodes for sure too. I’ll keep you guys posted as things progress. Hopefully for the better😅
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Sevans
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(@sevans1965)
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BTW, @doodaddy, I just noticed, you’re less than 24 hours old—

Welcome to Percy’s man, I hope the community can help you sort out your current issue.

TTYL.

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Doodaddy
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Terpinolene
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@sevans1965 thank you for everything. At this point I think I’m leaning towards just water like you said or maybe even a flush unless someone knows a better option 🤷‍♂️

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Macky
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@doodaddy Are you doing anything to add magnesium at all mate? Looks like mad def to me, timing seems right for it too

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Doodaddy
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@macky yes I added 1 tsp of cal mag fox farm brand. Thank you I found your podcast and it brought me here. You guys rock!

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Doodaddy
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@macky I think I may be overwatering too….a gallon at a time with a lot of run off in ffof. Maybe cut it down to  half at 2 liters and see? Idk lol

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Improper_Weed_Viking
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(@improper_weed_viking)
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I'm going to put my money on an iron deficiency after some investigation.

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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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@improper_weed_viking can you explain what in the photos lead you to that conclusion, I’m learning myself, hence the question.

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Improper_Weed_Viking
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Ocimene
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@sevans1965 I'm glad you checked me there mate. I went back to confirm what I thought was iron deficiency through the pictures but was looking at the problem in reverse (hahahaha actual event of stoner brain) so yes we are back at magnesium. Handy to know though that iron deficiency looks similar to mag but in reverse 🤣🤣🤣

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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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@improper_weed_viking since asking the question I also hit the books again. So Mg & Fe have a similar appearance (yellowing leaves, dark green veins), but the leaf location is different initially between the two deficiencies. Do I have that comparison right, or is there more to it than that. It is hard sometimes looking at photos, and not being able to touch the leaves etc.

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Improper_Weed_Viking
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@sevans1965 my interpretation of the deficiency would be with mag it's yellowing tips to green centre and with iron it's yellowing centre to green tips

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WoodI2
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It's very possible that the soil is too wet and the feed is composed of mainly bloom and more PK with the koolbloom. So if it a PK lock-out, it will affect everything and will lock-out all kinds of stuff. Mag, Cal are usually the starters.  I had an excess PK that caused a Cal lock-out, that then caused a Boron lock-out. So in other words it's upside down and locked out. Plus I suspect that it's too wet. Remember a Teaspoon is 3ml, and the GH chart calls for 2.5ml max and that's at full strength. I would cut that back till recovery. 

I would look at the PH intake and make sure it's correct, and correct the soils PH if necessary. Then low EC input and no run off. give it a week and see where it's at. I just fed Fish fert and just mixed it up, and not thinking I started feeding it to the plant when I realized I hadn't checked the PH. When I did the PH was at 3.94. So that will fuck up a plant for sure. So that's the importance of checking PH. That's my newbie opinion, good luck.     

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Sevans
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(@sevans1965)
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@woodi2 last comment summed up some of what was going thru my head as I was firing all those questions at @doodaddy.

So, I’m still learning myself— so, me not being sure of the exact deficiency, and therefore not in a position to recommend corrective action with a high degree of confidence, I was focusing on root cause analysis (fixing any problem, ya need to understand what caused it). The three red flags that got my attention was—

1). Unknown pH.

2). Two primary nutz being used are bloom nutz, floranova bloom 4-8-7, & kool bloom 0-10-10 (so N could be an issue, espeacially if item #3 is an issue- flushing out what little nitrogen with over watering).

3). I didn't think it is good practice to water soil until you get 10%-15% run-off

 

-pH, if this is the primary root cause, everything being recommended for nute supplementation etc. is all for nowt.

-Some of the other comments others made toward overwatering. Do you mean the weekly watering schedule is too much, or watering until 10%-15% run off is achieved ?? My run-off question pertaining to soil has not specifically been answered. 

-Even in this comment and my earlier one, this newb was fixated on N (although it is my understanding that N is still important in flower but more so in veg), but TBF, I don’t know what micro nutz are in floranova grow (which I assumed was being used, for good reason, which could support the other theory’s (Mg &/or Fe), especially since Fe is not considered a common deficiency for indoor soil, from my research Fe deficiency is more prone to outdoor or hydro. Mg deficiency is common to all indoor growing methods, which could he exasperated by overwatering.

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Sevans
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Another question to help diagnose—-Until pH can be verified, is there any benefit to checking EC/ppm of the run off ??

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Doodaddy
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@sevans1965 so in the book I bought by mr. grow it he says to keep the ppm in the range of 750-950 for flower in weeks 1-4 so that’s what I’ve been aiming at. I get my PH pen tomorrow so I’m going to wait until tomorrow to water…..so all in all you guys think I should just water her tomorrow or?..

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Sevans
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@doodaddy as soon as you get your pH meter, hopefully they’ve included calibration fluid, calibrating should be the first step. Then check your water and report back to the the group. That piece of info will help ensure the next recommendations are sound (by verifying whether or not pH is the root cause).

I’m still not sure if the experts think checking run-off for the sake of problem solving is necessary, and I’m not sure if watering until run-off is a recommended practice for soil grows.

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Doodaddy
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@sevans1965 thank you I’ll let you know!

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Sevans
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Caryophyllene
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Also note—

some pH meters have automatic water temp compensation and some don’t. So check your instructions.

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Doodaddy
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@sevans1965 so I checked my PH and it read over 8 so I’m going to stick to distilled for it from now on. What should I do next. Just water or water and light nutes?

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Doodaddy
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I watered last night with distilled because it was time though. 1.5L like you suggested.

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WoodI2
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@sevans1965, I read this quickly so I may be wrong. But If your indoors and your using good bottled nutz at a regular rate then you won't see a deficiency, you'll see lock-outs that look like deficiency. So many of the trace elements only very small amounts, so if you think it's an Iron deficiency look to see what locks out iron first. But if your PH is at 6.5 an Boron is available at 5.6 then that may be a problem. I have to run, will be back. Hopefully I didn't goof up what you were asking.

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monkeydo
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Posted by: @woodi2

Remember a Teaspoon is 3ml

Just had to correct this because it could cause someone to mix bad nutes…. A teaspoon is just under 5ml (4.93) so always use 5ml as a conversation factor for mixing your res.

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WoodI2
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@monkeydo, thank you. I was thinking 5ml per teaspoon and 15ml per tablespoon and 5 goes into 15 , 3 times, so 3 is my answer. Dyslexia and such never sleeps, but the keen eye of @Monkeydo is always on duty! Thanks man.

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monkeydo
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@woodi2 I thoroughly under “number dyslexia”. As a matter of fact I’m famous for it 😉

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Sevans
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@monkeydo I type with my thumbs and they are way bigger than the keyboard keys Mr. Green

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I'm no expert on this matter. But that said. If your PH in the soil is off then the whole plant will be unable to absorb what nutrients it requires at the time. Also root zone microbes can play a role in PH drift when checking run off PH water. If the plant has to much salts in the soil then osmosis which is the ability for the plant to uptake water not nutrients the plant will have a hard time. This will can cause lockout deficiency. So PH is key.  PH your water going in till runoff for every water. If you have the ability to check soil ph then you should do this also.  Drop down to your local home Depot and get a PH soil reader. Should look like a big sliver stick with a box on the end of it.  Place that in your soil and see what it reads. Remember not to leave it in there because it will rust and give off bad readings clean after each use.  Anyhow in short PH fisrt. Boron is the driving wheel for calcium and magnesium (side note)

Happy growing Thumbs Up  

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Considering your time frame and when the issue started I am wondering if this issue started with your bloom input, it's common to see calmag issues when switching to bloom nutes also, the spike in PK can cause issues sometimes. Just something to consider Smile

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(@sevans1965)
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@doodaddy, I’ve been off grid the last few days, thought I’d ask how the girls are looking since the distilled watering ?

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