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Lowegrow
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Starting this thread to figure out what is wrong with my plant. Any tips are greatly appreciated.

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James
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I am a Coco Grower and consider myself a student (doing my plant nr.8) -

but she is alive and will survive.

Our Pros will sure have a look for your thread.

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James
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Have a look here

https://percysgrowroom.com/symptoms-of-over-watering/

seems to be overwatering.

Did you wait till the pot is light before watering?

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Lowegrow
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@james yes it is pretty light when I water now. All of this started once it went into flower. I am watering less often now but am doing about a liter of water every 3-4 days since last Friday. Before that was every other day at 600-700 ML 

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Lowegrow
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that top picture is the one I took today. I just don’t want it to die. How do I go about saving it? 

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James
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What is the nurients you use? You mentioned a Kit.

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(@colacody)
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So first things to check are.. .how is the water and feed....ph level and is it still good (sitting around too long etc.) Hiw strong the feed is. If the ph is off... the plant cant eat. Next is checking the medium for over saturation...if your over watering then make sure the medium dries out completely before the next feed. Also how often are you feeding or are you just using water? Most soil guys will do water feed water feed. Feed being water mixed with nutes

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Hey @lowegrow and welcome to percys buddy, what medium are you in, what nutrients are you using, what is your feeding schedule, and what are the quantities of nutes in your food, and what is the ph and ec of the feed both before you feed and the run off, that will give us a good idea of what the grow is like, also the humidity % will also help and temps in the tent 🤙🏻

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Lowegrow
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@green-beard it’s an organic super soil. It was a starter kit that came with dolimite lime and some other things. I’ll look it up and update it soon 

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Green Beard
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@lowegrow tg is your man for soil, he is a legend when it comes to growing in soil. @templegrower could you have a look at this buddy

 

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Lowegrow
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@green-beard the humidty ranges from 38-47% and temp stays around 80 but was up to 86 earlier today. 

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Its either nitrogen or phosphorus def..... what colour are the stems off the leaves mate? If they are purple then phosphorus def, if the are green nitrogen def 🙂

But, the deficiency might be cause by something else, not just a lack of food in the medium. 

Considering it has dolomite lime in it, you shouldn't have to adjust the ph at all. the top pic in particular looks worse off than the others too. Is that one plant sittting close to the fan, or a strong cold breeze from a fan?

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Lowegrow
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@macky yeah we angled the fan down on the plant so it would help dry the soil out more since I was concerned it was not airing out correctly. Should I Point the fan away from it? Also, should I buy phosphorus to add to it? 

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Lowegrow
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I watered about 2 hours ago and they seem more dropped now. I’ve waited almost 4 days to water.. how dry should the soil be before I water again. 

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Colacody
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@lowegrow so in this case its normal to get droop after watering. Did you soak the entire medium with some run off out the bottom? Not a whole lot but some....also watch for the water to run down the sides of the pot if the medium dried out too much.....its like it bypasses the soil in that case and you THINK that it's been watered. But if the pot is heavier you've soaked it and wait for the medium to dry out again....probs in a few days....check daily tho. Have you also checked the PH of the water/feed?

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Lowegrow
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@colacody they look much more alive this morning. The yellowing is still there and looks almost worse but the tops where the flowering is happening loom healthier. More upright and the leaves themselves got bigger after the watering. They are still clawed down but look much more vibrant. I will try and post a picture. The Ph of the water is 6.2-6.5. I use the drops and it looks like the color is barely lighter than the 6.5 color reading on the bottle. I don’t use any feed because it’s a super soil that came with nutrients I put in when mixing the soil. What would be cause of the yellowing now? Is it stress? I’m so confused 

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Colacody
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@lowegrow I think it MAY have been over watered at some point but if the buds are looking good and you've still got growth it may be sorting it self out. Keep a close eye on it and update everyday. The good thing is it's getting better if the buds and new growth is perking up 

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Lowegrow
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@macky I added new pictures of it today if you could check it out. I watered yesterday and it seems much more lively today. Could I have been under watering once it went into flower? Don’t the plants use/need more water when in flower? It seems like every time after a good watering the leaves get bigger and prop up more. The yellowing is much worse though :/ 

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Lowegrow
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Myrcene
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CALMAG!! Just kidding. 😆

That looks like some major pH lockout to me my brethern. The pic below is a plant I had some issues with a while back... I was feeding it water with a pH of about 8.1 and after a couple of weeks, it was very pissed at me. What is the pH/TDS of your water that you are using to irrigate? Or are you just using water right out of the tap? Either way, my advice would be to flush the crap out of them with some very clean and pure water (like distilled or RO-treated) to rinse them out. Then continue watering as you were before using properly pH'd water. No matter how much food there is in your supersoil, if the pH is out of whack, the plant can't absorb it. If you do have alink to the mix you're using, that would be helpful as well.

pH lockout closeup

Oh and one other thing - it looks a bit like your pots are sitting right on the bottom of your catch pans.. that can cause issues as well as any runoff from supersoil usually contains a large amount of dissolved nutes, and can be a little much for those bottom roots. Plus, having it sit in standing water keeping the roots wet is not a good idea either - that can cause lots of issues, most of which are tough to see without actually looking at the roots. Problems can manifest in the leaves and be confusing... lol. I use square metal grid things to keep my pots off the bottom.. might be a good idea to get something like that going as well.

Day 52 (Flowering Day 13)   The Temple (side)
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Lowegrow
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@templegrower I have been checking the PH of the water and I usually have to use PH down to get it down to the 6.5 range. I have read recently that the orange bottle of PH down is bad for an organic super soil. It said it could disrupt it, does that sound right? If I flush it out would that be bad since I’m using a super soil and it would flush out all the nutrients then? I am going to link the grower kit I used so you can check it out 

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Colacody
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@lowegrow if you want to ph down use a few drops of apple cider vinegar....I use organic apple cider vinegar....you DO NOT need much. Add about a 1/4 tea spoon to start in a few litres and measure..  you'll get the hang of it after a few goes at it.

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Lowegrow
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@colacody this is the stuff I’ve been using to get water PH down.

image

 

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower I linked it down below the exact kit I have used start to now 

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Lowegrow
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Lowegrow
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This is the side.. so much yellowing taking over. The stems are red too 

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@lowegrow get a grate or some sort of drain tray that the pot can sit on and let the water drain away. Could be a cause of these issues. You may not be over watering but if the pit doesnt drain properly and breathe....you'll have overwatering symptoms. But as TG said looks like lock out possibly. Hiw far along is the plant in flower?

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Lowegrow
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@colacody couple weeks into flower. Don’t they use more water in flowering? 

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Colacody
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@lowegrow  yes as they get bigger they use more water for sure. But if its not draining properly and the bottom roots sit in the water....it will be pissed lol. Mine are still vegging and get 8litres each outside right now when they are fed. Yours will use more water as they get bigger and this is why knowing the weight of the pot weight vs. Dry is important 

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Lowegrow
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@colacody here is how they look today. I’m worried as the stems are getting purple. I also took a close up picture of a root.. is that healthy or root rot? Something is going wrong as the yellowing is bad and stems are getting purple 

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Colacody
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@lowegrow I think those roots should be covered....you shouldnt be able to see roots out the top....did you raise the pot above the ground onto a tray?

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Yuo can tell if its root rot byt the smell of the medium mate does it smeel like rotten eggs or cheezy? Looks like phosphorus deficient 

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Lowegrow
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@macky no it doesn’t really smell at all. What kind of phosphorus would you use? By adding that I wouldn’t make it that much worse if that wasn’t the issue, correct?

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Lowegrow
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@macky hey man how do I get into the chat to talk about my plant? 

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James
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Posted by: @lowegrow

@macky hey man how do I get into the chat to talk about my plant? 

Just use the chat - We have a new one - Do you use mobile or Desktop?

 

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Lowegrow
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@james mobile. It says this is for private users only when I click it

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@lowegrow you should be logged into the chat automatically when you log into the forum. Try logging out, then log back in and then try chat. It’s worked for me and several others that way. Let us know if the problem persists.

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@templegrower What organic top dressing should he use for phosphorus?

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Alright well, having a look at that link, I wasn't able to track down what exactly is in their 'Suberb Soil' but they do mention they are 'standing on the shoulders of giants' which would imply to me that the recipe is probably based on Subcool/Vic High/Clackamas Coot's work. But it's hard to say, as everyone has their own 'versions', myself included haha. But suffice to say, there is definitely something going on there. And if your pH is right around 6.5, there is no reason why there should be a lockout. The yellowing does look like an N deficiency tho.. that fade. 😎 

Purpling petioles can definitely be an indication of P deficiency, as long as they weren't always purple like some plants have. But I'd say you're on the right track. The leaf curl still looks like there are some unfavourable conditions underneath tho..

My suggestion would be to flush with clean water (if you haven't already), then get some either regular bone meal, fish-bone meal, or a blood/bone meal blend and top-dress with that (these prodcuts are just examples -whatever brands you have locally are just fine). And, since you have some roots exposed at the surface, it would probably be a good idea to get some plain potting soil and blend the bone/blood meal into that, and use that as a top-dress. Water as usual and you should hopefully see some improvement within 4-5 days. I should mention bat guano is probably the best option in terms of N/P content for this purpose but, I don't generally like to condone using it as it's not always the most ethically sourced stuff, and generally comes from places far far away so, not really 'organic' in the grandest sense of that term. But it is very effective stuff nonetheless.

Oh and definitely get the pot out of any standing water - the description of the kit says the 'Pot Drain Saucer acts as a reservoir and eliminates mess'. You definitely don't want your pot sitting in a reservoir, unless running a flood to drain aka ebbe and flow or other capillary-action focused type of grow, which supersoil is not. Some people like to 'bottom-water' but I think it invites more issues than it's worth. By leaving it in water to stay wet, you encourage anaerobic and anoxic (no oxygen) conditions which will kill the roots and encourage bad bacteria to start to grow. Not good.

But yes, hope this helps! 👍 

 

 

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower thanks man I will try and find some good reviewed bat guano or some of the other things you mentioned. Do you think watering every 3rd day with a liter is sufficient for a plant that size that is about to go into 3rd week of noticing flowering. 

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower also my light is a 1000w. Would it be too close to the plant? I’ve noticed the lower leaves are more green than the top. The top seem almost a light green color 

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower here are pictures of the difference in the green of the lower leaves. 

image
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Watering is always hard to advise on just because of the massive variation in plant uptake due to genetics, environmental conditions, etc.. but, my rule of thumb (that I stole from the very green thumb of Jorge Cervantes) is when the pot weighs about half as much as it does when it's fully watered and saturated, then it's time to water again. That plant definitely looks big enough to be able to wet the entirety of the medium so, you could fully water it, just until the first few drips of runoff start,and then lift it up to get an idea of how heavy it is (or actually weigh it to be super sure). So for example, if the pot weighs 4kg when fully watered, when it weighs 2kg, water again. Pretty straight-forward stuff.

It all depends on how well your medium is at retaining the water, as well as those other variables I mentioned. For a super rough comparison, when my plants get about the same size as yours in my 3 gallon (12L) pots, I usually have to water once every 2-3 days (depending on temps and humidity) using around 1-1.5L per plant. I water them just until I see the first drips of runoff.. I take this as a signal that the entire medium is now saturated and any more water would now just be wasted. In supersoil there shouldnt be a 'build-up' of salts like can happen in traditional mediums - the food is 'locked up' in the soil to be released by microbial activity/enzymes and exudates from the plant, rather than in a readily available but soluble form, easily dissolved in water and washed out of the medium, or concentrated if watering is inconsistent.

Speaking of runoff though, is there any way for you to test the pH of your runoff? Your water that you start with is good (pH 6.5) but if there is something in the soil that is messing with it, it might show in the runoff. I've had issues before where I had good growth but then it stopped suddenly (not in my cannabis but some snapdragons and other flowers). I ended up flushing the living shit out of the pot, ending up with some nasty-coloured runoff (it even stained my concrete). I kept flushing and whatever was causing the issue ended up being removed as runoff turned clear and the growth instantly picked up after that. So just a thought... but yeah. Flushing = good. Lol.

As for the 1000W light.. is that 1000W HID? Or a 1000W LED? Or a '1000W' LED? 😉 Whatever it is, I think your lighting is just fine. The green could be greener but, it may just be part of the deficiency. And new growth tends to be a little lighter green in general, until it gets a bit older and fills in with chlorophyll.

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower I will try and test the run off again today when I water. I’ve been trying to test it with the PH drops I have and it was reading slightly above 6.0 when I tested the last couple times. I’ll send a picture today of the amount of run off I get and what it tests at so you can get an idea. Right before all this stuff started happening we did have it against a different wall of the house. We rearranged the room and now it sits against a Wall that is by the outside of the house. The temperature went from always 75-78. To 80-84. Is that enough to stress it to cause issues? Been keeping humidity at 40ish. 

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Lowegrow
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@templegrower I am going to order “Dr.earth dry bat guano organic fertilizer. Is that stuff ok for the bat guano? My plant is starting to get purple running up the main stem of the plant and some bigger side branches. I’m worried. Will get stuff tomorrow and apply it with potting soil as a top dressing and hope for the best. Will that brand be ok? 

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