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Questions Help with feeding in DWC

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BrandineandCletus
(@brandineandcletus)
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Hi there, I’m Brandine and need a little help with feeding my plants the right amount of nutrients and keeping my ppm at a steady level. This is only my second grow and I am nearing the end of week 3 flower, so here is basically what I do from res change to the next res change….please tell me what I’m doing wrong.

I set the EC at 1400, the next day when i check them the EC usually drops by 200-400. then I refer to the EC fluctuation chart on this site and adjust accordingly. The following day the EC rises and then they have no consistency for the rest of the week with rising and falling levels.

can someone tell me if this a sign of over feeding or under feeding? I don’t see any other signs of deficiencies, just can’t keep the EC steady.

One other thing, when I do a res change I set the PH at 6.0.the next day the PH shoots up between 6.6-7, I then lower it back down to 6.0 but for the rest of the week it continues to keep creeping up. I believe the PH range I should be in is 5.5-6.5. Should I ph them back down to 6.0 if they are at the high end of the range? Ex. 6.5?

any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks a bunch

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Topic starter Posted : November 20, 2021 2:27 pm
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Posted by: @brandineandcletus

set the EC at 1400, the next day when i check them the EC usually drops by 200-400

what are you using for feed mate? how many ml per litre? 


"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”
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Posted : November 20, 2021 2:29 pm
Hart, Woolie, BubbleHok and 7 people liked
WoodI2
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Hey @brandineandcletus, nice adventure you've set out on here with the DWC. Adding back and topping off can be a big pain. It took me quit a while to get a grasp of it. As @Macky said can you list what brand of nutrients you are using, how much of each, how often, etc.? A real detailed list, and don't forget environment, air temp, RH, air intake and exhaust? (are you using a fan for the intake, active intake or a fan for the exhaust, active exhaust) Day/Night temps? Water, tap or RO?

Let's find out about your routine and go from there. No worries. 😉 

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Posted : November 20, 2021 3:51 pm
twisted1, Hart, BubbleHok and 7 people liked
Mr_Kryton
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Hi @brandineandcletus
Welcome to Percy's. I'm still newer than new to DWC, but fear not, you're in the right place.
This crew is the nicest, most knowledgeable team you'll find on the Interweb. 
Best of luck with your grow, will be following along for sure 😉

Dig a little hole, plant a little seed, wait a little while, smoke a little weed!

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Posted : November 20, 2021 4:09 pm
twisted1, Hart, Chillbert and 8 people liked
Huskie
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@brandineandcletus is a pic of your full setup possible?

If you set at 1400ppm and it drops by 200-400, then next time set it at 1800ppm from start.

Try using ec measurement instead of ppm, that way we know what your strength of feed is.

You can use ppm but there's 2 scales of measurement - 500 scale and 700 scale, I'm assuming your using 700 scale as your saying it drops by 400ppm.

Your ph is shooting up as your plant is taking up nitrogen during the stretch period (preflower/early flower) and the reason its going so high 8s becuase your feed is lower than what the plant wants, so in turn its eating up all the nitrogen.

Now, when your adding nutes back to your res your giving it the nitrogen it needs but theres are other nutrients besides nitrogen left in abundance in the res as your plant preferred those less than nitrogen at the stretch phase. So by adding back nutes your changing the Nutrient Element Ratios that where originally intended to be in res solution. 

How to fix? Feed at a ppm strength where the plant takes up nutrient and water at the same rate i.e the ec does not rise or drop (that's the aim, slight 0.1-0.2 ec is acceptable)

Your ph will increase during veg/preflower stretch and ph will decrease during flower, due to the switch in nutrient uptake by plant in veg vs flower.

5.5 to 6.5 is stated to be the correct zone.

5.8 to 6.0ph is best in veg/transition to bloom

6.2 to 6.0ph is best in flower.

In veg you set it to 5.7-5.8 and let it naturally rise till 6.0 then ph down gently to around 5.8 again as it tends to rise in veg nutes you start at the lower threshold of 5.8 letting it rise to 6.0ph.

In flower it's the opposite it tends to drop in ph so you start at 6.2-6.1 and let it drift down to 6.0.

The 5.5 to 6.5 are just the boundaries that are best to be within. But your plant health and growth excel at correct ph for each stage of veg or bloom.

If your doing dwc you will need a water chiller, can be done without chiller if your water temp stays between 18c to 20 degrees Celsius temp!

Otherwise root rot and poor root health and nutrient uptake will mess with ph ec and plant health.

Airstones to mix water around and oxygenated the water is essential, not doing so will cause all above issues.

Rootzone health can be maintained with h202 or even bleach/pool shock chlorine.

You may opt for beneficial bacteria etc.

It can be done without chiller but problems may arise.

👍

 

I never grow a plant, it grows me.

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Posted : November 20, 2021 5:28 pm
bundertaker, twisted1, Hart and 9 people liked
BrandineandCletus
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@macky I use Remo nutrients at 1ml removed link

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Topic starter Posted : November 21, 2021 2:04 am
twisted1, Hart, Schroomy and 7 people liked
BrandineandCletus
(@brandineandcletus)
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@huskie-2 Thanks for all the info. I forgot to mention that I use Remo nutrients and Heisenberg microbial tea. I also measure using EC. I just have a few more questions.

If I set my EC at 1400uS when I change my res and the following day the EC drops by 200uS, do I need to add more nutes? How high do I raise it up to? Is 1400uS too low? How often should I be feeding throughout the week? How do I keep my EC at a steady level?

Here is an example of a typical week…

saturday - res change, plants set at 1400uS. Ph 5.8

sunday - EC drops to 1200uS, water drops, ph rises above 6.5. feed and raise EC by 100uS. Lower ph to 6.0

monday - EC rises to 1300uS, water drops, ph rises to 6.3. Water only, ph’d to 6.0

Tuesday - EC rises to 1400 uS, water drops, ph rises to 6.4. Light feed to 1500uS, phd water to 6.0

wednesday - EC drops very  slightly, water drops, ph rises to 6.4. Light feed to keep steady at1500uS, ph’d water to 6.0

thursday - EC rises to 1700uS, water drops, ph rises to 6.5. Water only, ph’d to 6.0

friday - EC rises to 1800uS, water drops, ph rises to 6.5. Water only, ph’d to 6.0

Thanks a bunch 😀 

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Topic starter Posted : November 21, 2021 2:42 am
twisted1, Hart, Schroomy and 6 people liked
Huskie
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@brandineandcletus sorry for late reply I've  been offline for few days (coco grow!😥).

Ok so your schedule is complicated but I see your trying to keep balance, how do your plants look, maybe a pic?

But its much easier to manage this way:

When you first set your res your trying to find the right ec/ppm, if its dropping by 200ppm then the original 1400ppm is to low by a factor of 200ppm (it's simply the amount that its dropped by that's your future increase).

So you need a res with 1600ppm by the sounds of it.

The reason your doing so many different things each day is because your adding nutes to your res ( the original intendended nutrient element ratio is out of whack).

The plant ate some starter loads of main and a bit of dessert in a three course meal but the next day if you feed again your adding new fresh starter, main and dessert to the same plate. So the main is in ratio to daily dietary needs but the starter and dessert are overloaded on the plate.

So basically in order to add back nutes to your res you should be making fresh nutes at only 25% ppm strength in separate bucket and topping up the res water level back to full during the week (you should have auto top up res made up at 25%ppm with float valve attached to your active grow res to keep water at correct level if possible)

but also then doing a complete new res with fresh feed every 7 days.

That way you adding back water and food but not overloading or under feeding certain elements of NPK cal mag and such things.

That wont bring up your ec it will let it drift down, I use to top up with filtered water only all week until res change, only ph adjusting. With rdwc /dwc the plants feed a lot during the week so a day or two of lower ec is fine before a res change.

In order to actually increase ec the correct way imo is to make fresh nutes in separate bucket at maybe upto 4 times the strength and add that to your res slowly whilst measuring ec ppms.

Let's say I had 100 litre res at 1200ppm dropped to 75litres and I wanted to increase ec by 200ppm to 1400ppm

The fresh nute I would make water would need to be higher in ec, with the original 1200ppm needed to match res ec but also 200ppm higher. But as the extra 200ppm in this 25 litres would be now shared by the 100 litres it would not be enough. The 200ppm split over 4 = 50ppm, resulting in a total ec of only 1250ppm in that total 100 litres.

So you would actually need 1200 original ppm + 800ppm = 2000ppm

When you add this extra 800ppm to the main res and it divides over the totality of it (100litres in total) you will end up with your target of 1400ppm.

That's if you want to do it properly, people have been known to just throw nutes into res. It can work out, if your strains not picky about nutrients or if the grower just wants ease. But if you learn the proper way you can cut corners safely. 

You know your ec is low whe  it drops and you k ow it's to high when it increases or plant leaf tips burn.

The beauty of rdwc dwc is that you can monitor it like no other grow technique could be.

Get a constant ph and ec display like a blue lab or similar you stick ph and ec probes in your res and hang up the display to be able to view ppm ph and water temps at a glance the probes stay in the res 24/7 throughout the grow. A vital tool for me to keep up with ph and ec, plus water temp is important. There are some cheap ones on Amazon. 

Hope that helps 👍

 

I never grow a plant, it grows me.

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Posted : November 25, 2021 7:38 pm
twisted1, Hart, Zombie Nation and 8 people liked
JBonesGreens
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Here's a helpful chart to explain what is going on in your dwc. So your plant is Falling, Rising, Rising. It's still drinking but it's not eating, so as it consumes just water the concentration of nutrients increases.

 

image 31556
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Posted : November 25, 2021 8:27 pm
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WoodI2
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@brandineandcletus, I have one question, how big is your system? 

 I would recommend changing the rez, make sure your adding all your nutrients in the correct order, and PH just like you've been doing but I would bring The EC in at 1.2 and let it sit and see. Everyone's grows are different, and some can run higher EC than others. For me I have a hard time to even hit 1.4 EC on any of my grows without my plant suffering. Systems are different, so are nutrients and strain etc. But when mine start to act up I just reset them and let them balance back out. Then they will tell me what they want and I go from there. But the EC dropping and the PH going up is a good thing, it will be the opposite in flower. You just gotta find her sweet spot and sometimes it's lower than you think. 😊  Good luck man, hope this helps.

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Posted : November 26, 2021 12:16 am
BubbleHok, twisted1, Hart and 5 people liked
Wrh
 Wrh
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There's some amazing info here gents anyone using any type of feed reservoir should be reading this it's incredibly informative many thanks all Fist Bump  

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Posted : November 26, 2021 6:29 am
BubbleHok, bundertaker, Rufio and 7 people liked
Smg
 Smg
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Hi dude the most crucial aspect of DWC IS PH. 😭. Your pH will fluctuate naturally but will have larger swings in dwc. Try to buy a good pH down or up. If your pH is off your plant will not feed. Some guys check their pH daily in DWC. 

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Posted : November 26, 2021 7:46 am
BubbleHok, WoodI2, monkeydo and 5 people liked
Huskie
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Posted by: @jbonesgreens

Here's a helpful chart to explain what is going on in your dwc. So your plant is Falling, Rising, Rising. It's still drinking but it's not eating, so as it consumes just water the concentration of nutrients increases.

 

image 31556

That charts amazing 👍

It's just missing one row: 

Water level falling, but ph and ec stay static, that means sweet spot.

Obviously ph wont stay in the sweet spot for too long (possible to keep it there via top with plain water or nutrient water) but possible to stay close to this ideal.

Your ph may fluctuate up or down slightly but it goes up in veg and down during flower, you counter that by decreasing the ph of the top up water to balance it down again, vice versa in flower.

So it is possible to have water level falling (good its drinking) ec stable with that water level fall (good as it's not increasing ec or decreasing ec so ppms are perfect) and finally slight ph fluctuations as expected but automatically brought back to correct ph setting via the higher ph offset of the automatic top up water/feed mix.

Temp is also vital as when temp goes up ph goes down, temp also affects EC readings giving higher ec reading with warmer temps.

18c to 21c. Below that it's too cold, above that theres less oxygen.

As mentioned by someone mix your nutes in the right order correctly as that can also mess your res. 👍

I never grow a plant, it grows me.

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Posted : November 26, 2021 12:09 pm
BubbleHok, Zombie Nation, WoodI2 and 4 people liked
JBonesGreens
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Posted by: @huskie-2
Posted by: @jbonesgreens

Here's a helpful chart to explain what is going on in your dwc. So your plant is Falling, Rising, Rising. It's still drinking but it's not eating, so as it consumes just water the concentration of nutrients increases.

 

image 31556

That charts amazing 👍

It's just missing one row: 

Water level falling, but ph and ec stay static, that means sweet spot.

It's on there, I promise 😉

 

Also, as huskie pointed out, water temp is very important. If you aren't running a chiller (I don't know how you would in DWC 🤣) you must use beneficial bacteria. I do both for good measure.

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Posted : November 26, 2021 1:16 pm
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Macky
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image
image

Maybe these would be helpful?

 


"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”
― Mark Twain

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Posted : November 26, 2021 1:28 pm
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