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Questions Unexplained pH drop

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(@lmcg287)
Posts: 8
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pH is going down and I might have an explanation, just wanted to get some feedback with differents point of view to see if it makes sense.

Plants are extremely healthy.

Roots are beautifully milky white.

Week 6. They still on vegetative

EC 0.8

pH 5.9

No burns no deficiencies just pure green.

Flushing + reservoir deep clean has no effect.

No weird smells.

Was using CO2..stopped over a week ago thinking that carbonic acid could be the reason...nothing changed regarding pH.

EC goes down about 0.5-0.7 per day(I'm slowly raising haven't seen any difference on pH yet).

pH goes down about 0.1-0.2 per day.

Nutrients(using tap water 60ppm)

  • General hydroponics trio. 1/3 preflowering recommended dosage, micro soft water.
  • Vitalink liquid silicone 1/3 .
  • Vitalink calmag 1 removed link
  • General hydroponics fulviic acid 1 removed link
  • Ecothrive neutralise around a drop per gallon, probably less.
  • Canna cannazym 25ml removed link
  • Foxfarm microbe brew 1/3 - 1 removed link
  • Foxfarm root french 1/3 - 1 removed link
  • Foxfarm sledgehammer couple drops per gallon.
  • Southern AG 0.2 - 0.3 / 10L + 0.2 / 0.3 every 2-3 days.

Environment 

  • Reservoir temp: 20°C - 21°C constant.
  • Air temp: min 18°C(night) Max 26°C.
  • RH: min 65% Max 68%(max at night 72%).
  • Light: mars hydro TS 3000 at 100% distance 80cm.
  • Ventilation: 1 in(bottom), 1 out(top) and 1 fan inside. The fan is alright. The other two ones are very powerful. More than enough. I made calculations and realised I had to step down power because it was too much.

Any ideas? If I forgot any detail just let me know please.

Thank you😊

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 2:51 pm
Stootie and WoodI2 reacted
(@lmcg287)
Posts: 8
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Why does it says removed link? I didn't add any link. It just cut the dosage and inserted removed link instead

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 2:56 pm
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WoodI2
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Hey @lmcg287, Welcome to Percy's I'm glad you found us. Sounds like you have quite the science experiment going on. From what I can see all your numbers look good, I like my PH at 6.0 and that where yours basically is, so if they were mine I'd bump up the EC to 0.85 and keep bumping in 0.05 daily increments till 0.95 and I would hold there if it doesn't straighten out before then, you could have a hungry strain. 

  I use the GH Trio but besides silica and cal/mag that's it, well Rapidstart for the roots too. But I've decided not to use so many additives and I found that I didn't need them, plus they were variables that could possibly be a problem.

  But my dwc PH will drop .02 and I'm cool with that, as long as she appearance is spot on and her EC is proper then I don't mine the PH slowly sliding down hill, but I think that if you slowly bring up your EC then your PH will stabilize and should start rising. 

  So I got No Age of the plant, No pics to look at while I type to ya, Ya gotta give a feller something to do while he's ramble'in on. lol 

  Here's a picture for you, maybe you have this already but I sure do like it, hope it helps. 🖐️ 

Screenshot 20220403 093922

 Print this out and hang it in your grow room. 

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 3:31 pm
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monkeydo
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Posted by: @lmcg287

Why does it says removed link? I didn't add any link. It just cut the dosage and inserted removed link instead

It’s the use of the / in your post that triggered the filter. You can use “per” instead with no problems.

Random acts of kindness make the world a better place

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 5:01 pm
Stootie, WoodI2 and Macky reacted
(@lmcg287)
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Hey @woodi2, first of all thanks for your time😊

Age of the plant is there, you missed it😁. 6 weeks. They are actually 6 same reservoir.  🦍 Glue.

I didn't attach any picture because I didn't see the point.  There no spots, no decoloration no sadness to get information from. Only the cotyledons and the first true leaves, the ones with only one blade. Same for the roots they are just beautifully white..

About the additives...yeah I agree with you it's just that Ialready had them and I'll use them until they finish, once they finish I'll go same as you. 

Raising EC slowly..yep that's the only thing that makes sense to me..I noticed but forgot to add to the post that pH drop decreases or stabilises for few hours after I too up with nutrients...next day in the morning when lights on pH starts again going down slowly but constant.

Only thing I can't think of is that they binge eating silicon and/or potassium...nothing else makes sense to me.

 

Just to make sure you say that you have had plants with pH going down for long period and still you were able to harvest good stuff? If so...that relaxes me😁.

 

The picture I have is a different one, but with almost the same information. It's in this forum..that's actually how I found it long time ago and realised there was some real knowledge in here.

They have been hanging on the water chiller for over a year already😊. I'll put this one next to it as it seems it adds a little bit more.

Thanks again for you time woodi😊

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 5:04 pm
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(@lmcg287)
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@monkeydo I guessed that, but it's weird because it didn't do the same with all the " removed link Anyway thanks😊

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 5:06 pm
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(@lmcg287)
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@monkeydo why did it remove mine from the post I just answered you but it shows on yours?now I'm even more confused😅

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 5:08 pm
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monkeydo
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@lmcg287 That’s the privilege of being Admin, my posts aren’t subject to the same scrutiny because I’m part of the team that’s responsible for the well being of the site

You’ll find it’s a matter of how and where the forward slash is wether the spam filter picks it up. Try putting a space on either side

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Posted : April 25, 2023 7:02 pm
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@lmcg287, imo, if these were mine and on week 6, I would want them to be at min EC-1.0, with a PAR of around 900 if their in good healthy strong growing condition. But I have an 8' ceiling so big isn't too big of a deal. I do 0.05 EC increases every 24hrs or so and I increase the light till they pray then stop, each are small daily increments till the EC and PH stabilize. I found with my dwc that the light and EC go hand in hand, if you increase the EC then possibly a light increase to help process those nutz into food, it's like a gas pedal to me. 

  Nitrogen raises the PH during growth and Potassium consumption drops the PH during flower. The N statement I know is true but I'm still trying to prove the potassium theory. 

  Hope you hang around awhile it's good to have another hydro grow, we have a few here it's picking up. I knew I read 6 weeks somewhere but couldn't find it when I wanted to, it was right there in front of my face as usual. lol 🖐️ 

 
Posted : April 25, 2023 7:18 pm
Lmcg287, Stootie and monkeydo reacted
(@lmcg287)
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@woodi2 my EC is low because I was scared my plants would burn..you said light and EC go together, yes, but I wouldnt let out temperature or humidity(that's the reason I was scared...last time got massive burnt with quite big plants at EC 0.6).

I'm raising because I know I'm safe the thing is that I can't go that slow. EC dropped 0.17 between yesterday and today after raising it 0.21. I need to get to 1 like you said but I will never get by raising 0.05 per day. I have to decrease it logarithmically. pH is logarithmic so It makes sense or it should😅

How do measure PAR? I measure lux then have to get equations that I have to look for each time to correct the values, just annoying. The potassium thing for what you said you don't have a theory, you have a hypothesis. From now on you can be sure that both the N and K statements are true, I can give you the theory so you don't have to trust my word blindly😅.

The effect of each salt on the pH of the solution depends on the acidity or alkalinity of the ions that make up the salt. For example:

- Potassium hydroxide: This salt is composed of potassium (K+) and hydroxide (OH-) ions. Hydroxide is a strong base that can raise the pH of the solution by accepting hydrogen (H+) ions. Therefore, this salt will raise the pH of the solution when dissolved in water or when plants feed on it.

- Potassium nitrate: This salt is composed of potassium (K+) and nitrate (NO3 -) ions. Nitrate is a weak base that can raise the pH of the solution by accepting hydrogen (H+) ions. Therefore, this salt will have a neutral or slightly alkaline effect on the pH of the solution when dissolved in water or when plants feed on it.

- Potassium sulfate: This salt is composed of potassium (K+) and sulfate (SO4 2-) ions. Sulfate is a weak acid that can lower the pH of the solution by releasing hydrogen (H+) ions.This salt will have a neutral or slightly acidic effect on the pH of the solution when dissolved in water or when plants feed on it.

- Vermiculite and perlite: These materials are not salts, but they contain some potassium and other minerals that can affect the pH of the solution. Vermiculite has a slightly acidic effect on the pH, while perlite has a slightly alkaline effect on the pH. These materials will have a variable effect on the pH of the solution depending on their proportions and sources.

- Monopotassium phosphate: This salt is composed of potassium (K+) and phosphate (PO4 3-) ions. Phosphate is a weak acid that can lower the pH of the solution by releasing hydrogen (H+) ions. This salt will lower the pH of the solution when dissolved in water or when plants feed on it.

 

K2O is not a salt, but a way of expressing the amount of potassium in a fertilizer. Potassium is usually present as K+ ion in water-soluble fertilizers, and K2O is the equivalent weight of potassium oxide that contains the same amount of potassium. For example, if a fertilizer has 40% K2O, it means that 40 grams of K2O contains 32.8 grams of K+. The effect of K+ on the pH of the solution depends on the anion that is paired with it, such as nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, or hydroxide. As explained before, some anions can lower or raise the pH more than others. When plants feed on K+, they release hydroxyl ions (OH-) into the solution, which can raise the pH slightly. However, this effect is usually minor compared to the effect of the anions

(They are sorted from the one that drops ph the least to the most. The first one doesn't drop)

 
Posted : April 26, 2023 10:47 pm
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