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TechnoPagan
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Highly experimental grow box. Attempting to grow as much as I can in the smallest space possibleΒ  Cool Β 

Strain Name
Grow Space

16"x16"x30" 3 flower chambers + 1 clone chamber

Lighting

Mix of LEDs with computer controlled dimmers

Grow Medium
Fogponics
Breeder/ Seedbank
Nutrients

General Hydroponics - FloraGro, FloraBloom and FloraMicro to with added Ca and Si to start

Picture of Strain
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TechnoPagan
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Lumens and PPFD and LUX
Oh my!

After spending the last couple weeks reading up on Cannabis lighting I feel like I know less than when I started and it was enough to trigger my depression. To top it all off, I'm told that it can be different from strain to strain, even plant to plant! Unamused They have LEDs specifically for plant growth which turn out to be exclusively blue and red light on the belief that these are the only wavelength the plant uses, except this is no longer believed to be true. Blue and red are still the most important but so many other wavelengths help. So this is what I've got so far:

5 5watt full spectrum 3 LEDs

LEDFullSpectrum3

5 5watt full spectrum 5 LEDs

LEDFullSpectrum5

5 3watt Deep Red LEDs

LEDDeepRed

5 3watt Royal Blue LEDs

LEDRoyalBlue

Using an Arduino to brighten or dim these I would be able to control how much blue and red the plant is getting and can be sure she's getting all the other wavelengths she needs. to grow. In addition I'm getting LEDs for infrared 730nm, 850nm as well as UVA and UVB. I'm not going to need this many for each flower chamber. Initially I may be starting with half a dozen feminized seeds and do a lot of cloning and flowering in small batches to find a true female to continue with so I'll be able to use all of them in different ways to start. This is going to be a learning project Unamused

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WoodI2
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Good luck @technopagan, sounds like a quest. Let us know how things go. Smile

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Subscribed! Cant wait to see what you Get up to her, i love fancy/teky grows! best of luck to you😊

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TechnoPagan
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Major Change of Direction

My original idea was to recycle nutrients in a large reservoir, closely monitoring pH, temp and EC and have an automated system to add as more as needed. As I decide on implantation I see problems with this set up.

Instead I'm going to a Run to (minimal) Waste system. A series of small peristaltic pumps will add nutrients and filtered water to a small mixing chamber, big enough to mix up the nutrients without them reacting with each other. I'll be monitoring EC and temp but just assume pH is okay (which feels a little like I'm just inviting Murphy to smack me upside the head). This mix goes out to the ultrasonic misters.

UltrasonicMister

These misters are a big reason I'm trying this project. I haven't used them yet so I'm anxious to get them and start playing with them. They produce a droplet size of 5 microns and under which the root hairs, as IΒ  understand it, can absorb directly. This gives you all the advantages of a high pressure aeroponic system without the associated costs, including power and headaches of a pressurized system. They're rather cheap and I want to set these up so that cover all the root mass and nearly all of the nutrient/mist is absorbed. The little that isn't and drips off the root mass is measured for volume and EC.

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TechnoPagan
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The Science Fiction-y parts

While most of this will be as high tech as I can afford, some of it goes right off the edge. I want the weight of the plant and SCROG screen to rest on the Root Chamber rather than the sides of the Flowering Chamber. the ports for ventilation and nutrients will be set up so that they won't support or add to it's weight. The Root Chamber will rest of four pressure sensors. Subtracting the weight of the equipment and an estimate of the little bit water on the roots I'll be able to measure the weight of the plant in real time. Over a number of grows it would be able to make harvest predictions in real time as well.

I also want to record visible and invisible light spectrum reflected by the plant as well as the plants electrical conductivity and use ML (machine learning) routines to see if there's any useful information there. This part would add surprisingly little to the cost.

Have you ever heard the term "Citizen Scientist"? Basically it's an amature, non-credentialed (in the particular field) volunteer gathering and compiling data that the actual scientists use to develop and refine models and theories and to test hypotheses. From measuring the chemistry of local run-off, counting migratory birds feeding at their bird feeder to tracking objects in space with hobby telescopes they provide invaluable data that makes some of this scientific work possible. So what does that have to do with anything? If others build this (and I will be documenting everything and making the plans available as Open Source Hardware) so people all over the world can have an environmentally controlled and automated set-up that can connect to the internet. Researchers could write software you (if interested) could upload to the Raspberry pi controller that would allow them to make tiny, incremental changes to the conditions in your growbox and monitor the results. Your growbox and others scattered across the globe might be used to fine-tune growing conditions as well as help them develop better models of plant chemistry.

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TechnoPagan
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After reading some of these diaries (especially the coffee much grows) I've decided on the dimensions of the grow box (until I change my mind). The following is a rough sketch of what I want to do. Overall dimensions of each chamber will be 24"x12"x12". The cross-section will be 12"x10" for growing and 12"x2" for plumbing, electric, communications and ventilation. The screens in the flowering and root compartments basically serve the same function. With some gentle training, try to get the branches and roots to use every one of the available 120sq/in and stay as short as possible. Turning up the blue if need be to hold down the size of the plant. Air will be drawn in from the top of the chamber. Eventually filtered using negative ions and UVC but that'll have to wait a bit. From there the air goes into the root chamber then out through a carbon filter before leaving the box.

image

Parts should start arriving soon! Then the hunt for clones.

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monkeydo
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Posted by: @technopagan

24"x12"x12"

It almost sounds like you’re designing a space bucket with some sensors

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trout
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I'm pretty excited to see the build of this.

Do those ultrasonic misters need to float on the surface or are they able to draw water up a tube or something?

Β 

Β 

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TechnoPagan
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@troutcuckΒ 

That's the big question. I've never worked with one (If anyone out there has, or has seen one set up plese feel free to chime in.. Tracking number says the first parts will be arriving tomorrow. One will be a mister with a small circuit board that takes 5v and puts out the 108kH 1.5-3w the disc needs to work. In a couple weeks to a month I get 5 more without board (ridiculously cheep $2,88 for the one with the little board and 10x$8.65 (prices go up and down without warning and you have to watch out some of the more unscrupulous suppliers don't soak you with postage or bait and switch). Eventual plans involve creating a professionally done PCB (with the microcontroller able to regulate currentas and see how that changes output volume. I want all the misters put in each rooting chamber to be individually addressable (Β  part of the open source but at first and for a while it's going to be a lot of messy soldering (and I really don't have much experience with this, mostly used solderless breadboards so it's going to be an education (if anyone out there does have this experience, please, I would love any advice or opinions you would give me))

Today I made probably the least important decision I've made on this project, the designations. I decided to borrow from the mini series 'The Foundation' (loved the trilogy as a kid, although this is something they tacked on for TV) as Sister Dawn, Sister Day and Sister Dusk (and that brief period when Sister Dusk becomes Sister Night). If you like Sci-Fy it's worth checking out. Once moved from the clone box (I'm still a little fuzzy on this one, it would only need to produce just one forced and low stress trained clone a month, indefinitely) to a flowering chamber, that plant won't be moved again. The lights, temperature, humidity, nutrient mix, everything would change as the plant goes through it's remaining stages till harvest

I will keep you all posted on what happens tomorrow

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trout
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@technopaganΒ 

I have some experience with designing electronics for fun. Easy solution for soldering is to just get it working with your breadboard and then you can get a solderable breadboard for a test run. Then once you have everything finalized, there is software you can use to lay it out onto a custom pcb and have it made. Soldering itself is easy as long as you're not using surface mount components. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Β 

As for pH, I think you're going to have issues if you don't account for it. Looks like it runs from 5.5-6.5 for aeroponics, so you'll most likely need to use pH down. You could do a test mix to figure out how much to add, but your water supply may vary and you want others to be able to make this. Distilled water would make the input water very consistent, but might get annoying. It might be best to just have a pH sensor so you don't lock out your nutrients.

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TechnoPagan
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@troutcuckΒ 

Parts are starting to arrive. I will post more soon, just wanted to respond. I've got more experience with solder-less breadboards, I just worry about heat dissipation with the LED. I would be grateful for any advice, suggestions or ideas on efficiency and safety scaling up circuit diagrams I've been finding online like a circuit using an Arduino to dim and brighten a 20ma LED scaled to up to 30w.

Also I hope you're okay with anything you put into this winding up as Open Source hardware. Not sure which open source license to use yet, but my intent is to make the plans available to everyone for free.

I think you''re right about pH monitoring. I didn't think about changes in water pH, then I realized that changes in temperature, quite a few things in fact can cause changes in pH. That one is availible for about $5 and around the same for postage, so around $10 total. Just didn't feel right not having that locke down aswell

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monkeydo
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Posted by: @troutcuck

Then once you have everything finalized, there is software you can use to lay it out onto a custom pcb and have it made.

I use Eagle for circuit board design. It does one or two sided boards and the free version was enough for me. It even checks your circuit for opens and shorts. You can print the designed circuit on a photocopier and then etch and drill your own boards if you have the tools. It was a fun and interesting process to me.

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TechnoPagan
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Posted by: @monkeydo
Posted by: @troutcuck

Then once you have everything finalized, there is software you can use to lay it out onto a custom pcb and have it made.

I use Eagle for circuit board design. It does one or two sided boards and the free version was enough for me. It even checks your circuit for opens and shorts. You can print the designed circuit on a photocopier and then etch and drill your own boards if you have the tools. It was a fun and interesting process to me.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've downloaded Eagle and have started to play with it. As well as creating your own board, the .brd files can be sent to some PCB makers or (I believe from what I've read so far) converted to Gerber files that the rest will accept (not everybody is practiced in making PCBs)

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TechnoPagan
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Sorry about the long absence. It's been a rough week and a half. One of the reasons I want to make the Garden as automated as possible is so that the plants have a chance to survive when my depression gets bad (my past is littered with dead houseplants and pet fish). Nearly all the parts ordered so far have arrived.

20221030 215553

Β Top row is various LEDs, from left to right UVB, UVA, royal blue, cool wide spectrum, warm wide spectrum, deep red, IR730nm and IR850nm

Bottom row is water cooler, aluminum water block, 5 ceramic misters, 1 ceramic mister with board (to play with) Humidity sensor⬆️,CO2 sensor⬇️, 2 temperature sensors and probably the most important part that has nothing to do with actually growing the plant - a power meter.

I'll have more on the mister tomorrow (fingers crossed)

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Sorry to hear your going through a bad patch mate, I was bothered with depression myself for a long time. hope you can shake it soon bud.

It looks like youve got a good collection of stuff there now, hopefully you'll have it up and running before too long πŸ™‚Β 

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TechnoPagan
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Posted by: @stootie

Sorry to hear your going through a bad patch mate, I was bothered with depression myself for a long time. hope you can shake it soon bud.

It looks like youve got a good collection of stuff there now, hopefully you'll have it up and running before too long πŸ™‚Β 

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm not expecting it to go away permanently though. This is something I've struggled with for more than 50 years. Best I've been able to do is get on with my life despite it Thumbs Up

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@technopagan You should never give up bud, I was bothered with it for 20-30ish years, I was on antidepressants and nothing seemed to help either.Β  But one day I was watching a Michael Tsarion video and he was saying being depressed is a natural response to being in a fucked up controlled world/society, (that's not the exact words he used but the same idea).

He said dont fight the depression, instead of pushing it away with antidepressents etc, face it head on and let it drag you down as far as it can.

So that's what I did. It took a long time , it wasn't fun but it worked.

One night I was sitting on my bed rocking back and fore crying, all fucked up, I woke up the next morning and the depression was gone, Iv heard people saying it feels like a huge weight has been lifted off them and I suppose it does feel like that, or more like a diseased limb being cut off.

That must be about 5 or 6 years ago now and it's never been back. Once it's gone you know it wont be back. I didn't think I would ever shake it off but I did eventually, so there's always hope man, you can manage too πŸ™‚ πŸ‘Β 

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TechnoPagan
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Posted by: @stootie

@technopagan You should never give up bud, I was bothered with it for 20-30ish years, I was on antidepressants and nothing seemed to help either.Β  But one day I was watching a Michael Tsarion video and he was saying being depressed is a natural response to being in a fucked up controlled world/society, (that's not the exact words he used but the same idea).

He said dont fight the depression, instead of pushing it away with antidepressents etc, face it head on and let it drag you down as far as it can.

So that's what I did. It took a long time , it wasn't fun but it worked.

One night I was sitting on my bed rocking back and fore crying, all fucked up, I woke up the next morning and the depression was gone, Iv heard people saying it feels like a huge weight has been lifted off them and I suppose it does feel like that, or more like a diseased limb being cut off.

That must be about 5 or 6 years ago now and it's never been back. Once it's gone you know it wont be back. I didn't think I would ever shake it off but I did eventually, so there's always hope man, you can manage too πŸ™‚ πŸ‘Β 

Don't worry. I don't give up. Otherwise I wouldn't still be here. I don't think the same would work for me. I think it's important to feel it out, to understand it, but there are times that I've been deep in it that I almost didn't make it back out. I find antidepressants useful. Unfortunately I'm what they call 'treatment resistant", meds that work great for me loose effectiveness in time. Anywhere from a few years to as little as six month. Interestingly the one thing that I've found to help is weed, and still working after all this time. It has it's limits. It's not a cure, just temporary relief from the symptoms but I'll take what I can get and use whatever I can get to keep going

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TechnoPagan
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I've been playing with the ceramic mister. Holding it against a sponge with just the right pressure at just the right angle I've been able to get some plumes of mist. I've been using a USB wall wart to power it and I think I need one with a little more power. But this isn't how I plan to use it anyway (would get very tired holding it in place 24/7). So I'm putting together a better test (and I'll have pictures since I won't have to hold it in place).

In the mean time, this fell into my lap. I need to reinforce it, get some bubble insulation and start building it out

20221101 152341
20221101 152437

Β It's 6'hx2'wx10"d, mostly 1/2" pvc pipe and covered with thin, black nylon cloth and should do nicely for the first incarnation of the Table Top Weed Garden Smile Β 

After that, the big challenge will be finding a couple clones (one as a mother and the other for my first grow

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monkeydo
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Posted by: @technopagan

After that, the big challenge will be finding a couple clones (one as a mother and the other for my first grow

You could always pop one bean to get a mom and then clone from there. Seeds are easier to source.

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Posted by: @monkeydo
Posted by: @technopagan

After that, the big challenge will be finding a couple clones (one as a mother and the other for my first grow

You could always pop one bean to get a mom and then clone from there. Seeds are easier to source.

That's probably what I'll do. I worry that they'd all turn up male. If I get feminized, I'm at least hedging my bet, but from what I understand there could be problems with gender expression after a few generations. Don't know that for sure though

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TechnoPagan
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To really test the ceramic misters I needed to mount one vertically, with water on one side and air on the other. I’m using the tiny board they included with one of the disks, an empty box of cat treats, a heftier USB wall wart. Just a few shots of what it looks like. I’ve taken apart that set of shelves to see other possibilities for how it might be used. Nice little tinker toy set. I mention this because I’m using one of the shelves to provide contrast.

MisterFront
MisterTop

The difference between the two blue marks is 1 cup. Plugged it in and this is what I got

Mister1Cup
Screenshot from 2022 11 05 10 11 00

Nice little plume of mist about 12 -15 inches. I let it run for four hours, discovering it auto shuts off at 4 hours, so I started it up again for the next clip. That works out to roughly (and roughly is all I need right now) of 1oz/hr (this last was supposed to be .mkr but the forum software wouldn't accept it. I'll try again later.)

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